Deal reached on new pilot hours

[Erlanger]

http://www.buffalonews.com/2010/03/13/986439/deal-made-on-hours-of-training.html

http://www.wgrz.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=75246

 

[hou757]

I think 1000 hours would be a good compromise for this bill.

 

[Erlanger]

I think 1000 hours would be a good compromise for this bill.

We need it even higher to create a pilot shortage and maybe we'll get payed what we deserve and then some.

 

[Tarzan]

We need it even higher to create a pilot shortage and maybe we'll get payed what we deserve and then some.

Glad to hear you guys are doing your part.

 

[hou757]

I'll just be glad to see an end to the 300 hour new hire into a jet. I wonder how this will effect Gulfstreams FO program? hmmm.

 

[n757st]

"specific rigorous conditions such as icing... ". Now, I am all for upping the hours of first officers, but how is someone flying charter etc in Florida or down south supposed to pull that off? This could be interesting.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

We need it even higher to create a pilot shortage and maybe we'll get payed what we deserve and then some.

I would like to get PAID more! Don't know about "PAYED"

 

[BigLebowski]

I'll probably get blasted for this. I think 1500TT and 500ME would be a good start. It will give you the time to instruct (actually learn a little from it) and then move on to flying a light twin (part 135) to really learn how to fly in the weather.

The "real" experience I gained from being a check instructor, to single pilot IFR was amazing and I couldn't imagine skipping over that in my career. True it would have been cool to get an rj job right out of college (if anyone was hiring at the time), but I wouldn't give up my experiences for anything.

 

[pilotyip]

A friend of mines daughter has been in the guard flying C-130's for over two years. She has around 600 hrs, but she is now not airline material, But two guys with their CFI's, buy a C-150, fly it together day/VFR for 300 hours giving each other dual and they are instant 800 hour pilots, a hard number has nothing to do with skill. For example the 500 ME means nothing, we have hired military helos drivers into the right seat of the DA-20 Falcon. They got 10 hours ME to get their ratings. They out flew the 1500 ME guys coming out of the 135 world. Why excellent CRM skills, and excellent IFR skills. Plus just an opinion that the light control touch that a helo driver has is better adopted to a jet transition than muscling a PA-31 around the skies. BTW We had minor problem with one guy who tried pulling up on the right armrest to get back on gluide slope, we fixed that one

 

[PCL_128]

This compromise basically renders the provisions useless. Very few pilots were ever actually getting hired with less than 800 hours. The average was probably in the 1000-1200 hour range. We needed the 1500 hours to make a significant impact. Disappointing to say the least.

 

[Max Q]

Pilotyip: So you disagree that there should be an increased minimum?

We can go back and forth all day about where the line should be drawn but I think we can both agree that the line is not to be drawn at 250 hours. Additionally, it is still up to the employer to decide who has the more impressive resume. There is no replacement for experience. I doubt an airline is going to give preference to two CPL's with 800 hours in a 152.

 

[e=mc2]

Easy for PCL 128 to say - since he bought his flying job to start with!

 

[Balou]

Your asking for logic from the goverment, politicians, airlines and the general public ?
Good Luck !!

 

[pilotyip]

yes I disagree

Pilotyip: So you disagree that there should be an increased minimum?

We can go back and forth all day about where the line should be drawn but I think we can both agree that the line is not to be drawn at 250 hours. Additionally, it is still up to the employer to decide who has the more impressive resume. There is no replacement for experience. I doubt an airline is going to give preference to two CPL's with 800 hours in a 152.

Of course I disagree, a hard number takes away the ability to make a rational decision. In my case above, in times of a hiring boom, the airline by regulation would be forced to hire the 800 CFI's, and bypass the C-130 pilot because she only has 600 hours.

 

[OCP]

Of course I disagree, a hard number takes away the ability to make a rational decision. In my case above, in times of a hiring boom, the airline by regulation would be forced to hire the 800 CFI's, and bypass the C-130 pilot because she only has 600 hours.

The problem is there are VERY few of the example you use and TONS of 300hr people who shouldn't be flying a jet. So to help increase safety they will raise the mins. It will sacrifice the few for the many.

 

[Max Q]

Of course I disagree, a hard number takes away the ability to make a rational decision. In my case above, in times of a hiring boom, the airline by regulation would be forced to hire the 800 CFI's, and bypass the C-130 pilot because she only has 600 hours.

Right, it's the "hard number" that takes away the airline's ability to make a rational decision...

If it comes down to choosing between a 600 hour C-130 pilot and an 800 hour CPL, I would say the airlines have a much larger issue.

 

[buscap]

The next hiring boom will not be a boom really. It will be a retirement driven trickle-up, which will not have enough impact to change the industry as the last 'boom' did. The last boom saw the end of pay for training and a raising of the bar with regards to starting pay and QOl for new hires.

When the next real hiring boom does happen some school will come up with a program deigned to meet the letter of this law, with no real improvements to the pilot-product pooped out at the end. Or maybe the regionals will talk the FAA into letting them run an in-house Gulfstream-esque training program.

This law is written by folks whose only concern is getting reelected and will have no raising of the bar effect, as it relates to pay or pilot proficiency.

Let's face it, this is eye wash and rightly so. Like it or not, everyone is inexperienced at what they do, at some point in their career. Every surgeon has their first cut. Every sniper has their first kill. Every hooker has their first trick.

Good training can close the competence-experience gap, but never eliminate it. But we all know this bill is not about closing the competence gap. This bill is about politicians being able to say "Well, we did something."

And the truth of the matter is, a real solution to this problem is not available in any form of legislation.

 

[Flybywire44]

A friend of mines daughter has been in the guard flying C-130's for over two years. She has around 600 hrs, but she is now not airline material, But two guys with their CFI's, buy a C-150, fly it together day/VFR for 300 hours giving each other dual and they are instant 800 hour pilots, a hard number has nothing to do with skill. For example the 500 ME means nothing, we have hired military helos drivers into the right seat of the DA-20 Falcon. They got 10 hours ME to get their ratings. They out flew the 1500 ME guys coming out of the 135 world. Why excellent CRM skills, and excellent IFR skills. Plus just an opinion that the light control touch that a helo driver has is better adopted to a jet transition than muscling a PA-31 around the skies. BTW We had minor problem with one guy who tried pulling up on the right armrest to get back on gluide slope, we fixed that one

People like her will have to be ambitious and instruct on the side also.

 

[Lynxman]

You cant instruct when no one want's to fly anymore.

 

[bacardi]

I'll probably get blasted for this. I think 1500TT and 500ME would be a good start. It will give you the time to instruct (actually learn a little from it) and then move on to flying a light twin (part 135) to really learn how to fly in the weather.

The "real" experience I gained from being a check instructor, to single pilot IFR was amazing and I couldn't imagine skipping over that in my career. True it would have been cool to get an rj job right out of college (if anyone was hiring at the time), but I wouldn't give up my experiences for anything.

Thank you. I agree 100%