You violated a IAM labor contract!! You hate unions and embrace casino/croney/disaster capitalism!! The question becomes...how do you not hate unions!
I don't know if it is meaningless... you've refused to offer it.
No you refuse to comment on it but still ask anyway.
Got it... you refuse to back up your assertions and then tell me to opine on something you brought up. I am asking you to back up what you've said, not what I said.
I don't think what we are doing is working and went into great detail why. You don't agree, you want to continue business as usual. How have you backed up you assertions business as usual is the answer?
Again. I didn't bring up these strikes. You did.
Isn't "Spirit Strikes" in the title of this thread?
So again... you brought up that labor coalitions in house are more effective that a job action. I ask you to expand. You cannot. Strike 1.
So I asked you why you think AW did it. Still waiting on that one.
I ask you to expand on what you brought up as needed.... a radical shift at ALPA and how. You cannot. Strike 2.
Coalitions, moving away from strikes as the only solution. Said that at least six or seven times. Still waiting why you don't think this is a good idea, other than it came from me. What do you have against Air Wisconsin's MEC?
Then you proceed to bait me into engaging in topics that you bring up so you don't have to actually justify your misguided thoughts. Strike 3. You're out.
You mean like unjustly attacking ALPA pilots who happen to be military reservists. Its against our code of ethics if you haven't looked. You trying to justify that kind of garbage is what is troubling. Who here has the ego problem? Can you ever say you made a mistake? Nope its more rationalization and more insults. I didn't bait you, you said what you said of your own accord. "I can accuse military pilots of wrongdoing without evidence because I sent them a care package." Are you serious!
But again... you can't let go of the banana in the jar...... meaning.. you'll be back.... keep lofting in those underhand pitches and I'll keep hitting them out of the park.... your ego won't let you stop.
How do you know I am not the tree in your analogy, or the jar?
Rez you are like a Mets game, boring and full of errors.
That is not begging.... you can do better.....
no you haven't gone into detail. But you'll say you have...What have you got to lose?[Got it... you refuse to back up your assertions and then tell me to opine on something you brought up. I am asking you to back up what you've said, not what I said.
I don't think what we are doing is working and went into great detail why. You don't agree, you want to continue business as usual. How have you backed up you assertions business as usual is the answer?
Weak attempt. Again... logical fallacy. Why not bring up any strike in the history of labor?
You can ask me why the sky is blue. That doesn't mean I am obligated to answer. You stated in house alliances were better, while you are not obligated to answer, displaying the ability not to back up what you've said only shows your ignorance. Look, anyone can say anything... what separates the knowledgeable from the idiots is the ability to justify what they've said. Can you do it?
Again... anyone can say anything. I think speed of light space travel is the best way to go the Mars and beyond and NASA are fools for not doing it. Get it? Probably not.
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no you haven't gone into detail. But you'll say you have...What have you got to lose?
Why is Air Wisconsin trying it then?
Weak attempt. Again... logical fallacy. Why not bring up any strike in the history of labor?
I am trying to make heads or tales of this.
You talk about strikes and then say I shouldn't bring them up? Moving right along..
You can ask me why the sky is blue. That doesn't mean I am obligated to answer. You stated in house alliances were better, while you are not obligated to answer, displaying the ability not to back up what you've said only shows your ignorance. Look, anyone can say anything... what separates the knowledgeable from the idiots is the ability to justify what they've said. Can you do it?
Well okay then I am a fervent follower of the Air Wisconsin's MEC's approach over your "Strike, Strike, Strike" branch of ALPA. I feel little has been accomplished by your version of ALPA so I think we need to take a different approach. How can I give you results if we never try doing anything different becuase no admits anything is wrong? Luckily in this case we have Air Wisconsin and they should be a good test of what I am taking about, and if Spirit strikes and winds up like Eastern, Comair, United and Northwest have, well that will tell us a lot about your way won't it? Probably not becuase you guys will claim victory no matter what happens.
Again... anyone can say anything. I think speed of light space travel is the best way to go the Mars and beyond and NASA are fools for not doing it. Get it? Probably not.
Nope you don't understand how your own analogy does not apply. PCL said coalitions are nothing new so obviously they have been tried before, Air Wisconsin is trying a different approach right now. As far as I know speed of light travel has not been invented. Get it?
I thought you wanted to get away from anaolgies anyway. Why do you keep creating new ones?
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The burden is on you. It is your idea. No is responsible for debunking your thoughts and ideas. No one is going to waste time debunking the ideas of idiots. The idiots have to prove themselves intelligent before they will be taken seriously. It is well within reason to simply dismiss general ideas with no substance.
You have to show why it is a good idea and convince others to take your idea, work for change and make it happen. This is very difficult in human dynamics. Most people don't have the skillset, simply give up, state they hate politics, hate ALPA and just criticize. This is you. These are the haters. They lack the ability to formulate ideas into pragmatic action.....
Wow you just called me and Air Wisconsin's MEC idiots. Can't keep away from those code of ethics viloations can you? Hater, idiot, fraud, yeah Rez whatever. Any one who disagrees with you is of questionable intelligence and humanity. I got it. Now tell me again who has the ego problem.
It is offical, it has been blessed by Rez. Keep up the great work, it nice to see someone who deals in the labour-management realities and has a bigger picture than "me me me, if I don't get my way I will shut the place down to show who is boss".
Another falsehood. NWA was far from weak prior to the merger. They were actually in a very good position, and are now in an even stronger position. Comair is also far from weak, although Delta has done a good job of weakening our bargaining position at the FFD carriers by spreading the flying around. That is one area in which we need to improve as a union, and we're working on it. Yes, UAL is weak, but that's not a result of a pilot contract signed in 1985. The idea that you would even try to link the two is just mind boggling. The reason UAL is weak is because of weak management. Mr. Tilton is all but useless. His only strategy is to beg someone to merge with UAL, and there seems to be only one carrier even slightly interested, and they don't exactly seem thrilled at the idea. This is a business plan?
You need to stop blaming unions for bad management.
I am not blaming unions, i am blaming certain union tactics and union certain mindsets.
This is your idea of debate? A classic "I'm rubber, you're glue" strategy. Well played.
Here's how it works: you made an assertion, so you have the burden of proof. Prove that there are legacy rampers making more than junior legacy pilots.
Please go look at any IAM contract then look at FO pay.
The bargaining process is useless without leverage, and the only leverage we have is the threat of self-help. Companies only bargain because of coercion, not because they want to pay you more and give you a better quality of life out of the goodness of their hearts.
Of course not. As I said, this is a strategy that has been employed previously and it has been successful. But again, you're missing the whole point of the strategy: the threat of a job action. The AWA MEC's labor coalition is not a strategy in and of itself, it is a complement to a broader strategy that includes, as the key element, the threat of self-help. You want to remove the key element, which renders the whole thing useless.
Srtikes are not one size fits all. I believe in Spirit's case it would be a mistake
Don't embarrass yourself. Trying to resort to this sort of thing is proof positive that you're losing the debate. It's obvious to everyone here.
I may lose the debate but my character reamins in tact. In one of my first posts I said you rabib ALPA cheerleaders would attack me. Well you did not disappoint. You guys have resorted to name calling and violations of our code of ethcis in your efforts to personally diminsh Yip, Mamma and I, not to mention so many others in previous threads.. So you win the debate but you have lost a lot of self respect.
Rez has been a friend of mine for a while, and your characterization is completely inaccurate.
Well that explains alot. I can only judge him by the character of his posts from false accusations, trying to disparage the relief efforts in Haiti, to outright lying, and selective amnesia. He paints himself as a pretty reprehensible character. Just moments ago he said he had the right to post whatever he wanted about fellow ALPA pilots because this wasn't a job site. I suggest if he is your friend to have a talk with him. Don't play Harry to his Lloyd
You can't even place blame where it belongs, probably because you would have to share in it. The pilots flying the RJs are not to blame for your job being outsourced, AC; YOU and your fellow mainline pilots are responsible.
Scope is a permissive subject of bargaining, meaning your pilot group had no obligation to even talk to management about scope concessions, yet you chose to do so in order to buy other improvements. Don't blame the guys flying the RJs for your mistakes.
Hey another Rez. Who made you take an FO job for $19.00 an hour? Didn't think of the consequences did you? as long as you were getting what you wanted out of it. You mortgaged your future in this industry and kept guys on furlough for turbine time. We gave concessions to save some of our jobs becuase like Rez said, there was a ready and willing number of guys like you, willing to come along and undercut us. So spare me the crocodile tears about how mean AirTran is to you, because now you are in the postion I was in ten years ago. Sucks to be you doesn't it.
I was doing ALPA work long before I came to AirTran. What ALPA work have you done? What experience in this type of work can you point to in order to lend credibility to your positions? None? Thought so.
What can you point to? Dragging down the industry in partnership with management. Turning a great profession into a whiny bunch of high gel wearing glorified bus drivers or was it remaining silent while your friends make accusations against ALPA pilots. I would have perferred you do nothing.
Always enlightening to see a 20 something school Grandpa.... gives faith in the future generations.....
Your question. Your answer.no you haven't gone into detail. But you'll say you have...What have you got to lose?
Why is Air Wisconsin trying it then?
Very poorly no doubt. Why not stop posting and start reading. You've been schooled by someone the age of your grandchildren....Weak attempt. Again... logical fallacy. Why not bring up any strike in the history of labor?
I am trying to make heads or tales of this.
You need to stick with apples to apples. An amateur debate tactic is to try and move the discussion to apples and oranges. It is for the weak.
Brazo Zulu for thinking rationally. It is about time.
I just finished schooling you. Spirit is not ARW. Let Spirit do what it thinks is best. The only dog in this discussion is your ego.
Nope. Nice logical fallacy again. Apples to donuts. The ARW guys are smart and are doing what is best for ARW pilots. The Spirit guys are smart and are doing what is best for Spirit pilots.
