Quit ALPA Now!

[WayBack]

Alright Wayback, then here's your chance.
/QUOTE]

Wow, really? You're giving me a chance? Oh my!
Well, I don't have time to type out my answer right now, see my response to Rez.
But to give you an idea of what I would do...
I would start by making sure ALPA is removed from property.
Then we could get some work done.

 

[PCL_128]

Why do you guys even waste your time with these two fools (WayBack and CopilotDoug)? Just put them on your ignore list and be done with them. They have nothing to contribute and are probably just Ford & Harrison hired hacks.

 

[WalterSobchak]

This message is hidden because PCL_128 is on your ignore list.

What a spectacular idea!

 

[WayBack]

Ford & Harrison hired hacks.

Who is Ford & Harrison?

PFT128, I'm insulted that you'd refer to me as a "hired hack".
I've worked very hard to get where I am today, and I never had to pay $30k a year to built flight time in a King Air. Why don't you like the man who works for a living and earns his way up?
Instead, you appreciate the guys who write a check for the fastest advancement possible, along with the guys who need the support of a Union to help them remember to breathe every day.
But I do have to commend you on a job well done. Those guys would forget to tie their shoes every morning if it wasn't for the Union.

By the way, how's that mustache coming in?

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Why do you guys even waste your time with these two fools (WayBack and CopilotDoug)? Just put them on your ignore list and be done with them. They have nothing to contribute and are probably just Ford & Harrison hired hacks.

Simple. The more one calls out people like WayBack and CopilotDoug (who have no real solutions to the issues in our business), the more immature and idiotic they look, and that makes me happy.

I'll give JoeMerchant credit, at least he served in the union and tried to do what he felt was right for his group and the industry as a whole. I personally do disagree with the whole RJDC debacle, but those who supported it, rightly or wrongly, at least had the power of their convictions behind them. JM at least was trying SOMETHING (even if it was wrong), rather than the two previous tools who only bitch and moan, but with no real substance.

And Wayback (and CopilotDoug, you are welcome to join in too, under the same rules), I don't really expect a good answer from you. But the door is open; I'd really like to see some constructive debate as opposed to the standard 'F&%k ALPA' drivel. I would be happy to be surprised.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[WayBack]

Simple. The more one calls out people like WayBack and CopilotDoug (who have no real solutions to the issues in our business), the more immature and idiotic they look, and that makes me happy.

To quote a great man of our time - "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded".

I

'll give JoeMerchant credit, at least he served in the union and tried to do what he felt was right

He's not the only one.

And Wayback (and CopilotDoug, you are welcome to join in too, under the same rules), I don't really expect a good answer from you. But the door is open; I'd really like to see some constructive debate as opposed to the standard 'F&%k ALPA' drivel. I would be happy to be surprised.

If you think that this post of yours is going to touch my heart and I'll change my ways, you couldn't be more wrong. All you ALPA chumps are the same. So predictable.

 

[Rekks Inbound]

To quote a great man of our time - "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded".

I He's not the only one.



If you think that this post of yours is going to touch my heart and I'll change my ways, you couldn't be more wrong. All you ALPA chumps are the same. So predictable.

Well, what can I say?

FAIL!

Really didn't think you could do it. Just another loser who bitches and moans, but refuses to discuss any solutions of REAL substance.

It's a shame. I actually am interested in real ideas, because instead of just complaining about our 'situation', I'd be far more interested, and you would have more credibility if you would present solutions instead. But I guess that goes beyond your mental capabilities.

I guess PCL was right.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Alright Wayback, then here's your chance.

What would you do differently that ALPA isn't doing that would IMPROVE the profession and QOL of airline pilots? I'm not looking for an ALPA bash-fest, but some real, realistic, practical and ACTIONABLE solutions. I'll give you some basic questions, but feel free to add on more:

1)What would you about Flight and Duty time regs that we all acknowledge need to be revised?

2)What (or how) would you solve the 'race to the bottom', regarding pay scales?

3)How would you handle the scope issues between mainline and contract carriers, to be fair to both sides?

Just remember, this isn't meant to be a bash of ALPA, this is how would YOU handle these and other issues if ALPA didn't exist.

Peace.

Rekks

Here, I'll show you how this is done.

1) I would begin a letter-writing campaign to my elected officials, and encourage my fellow crewmembers to do the same. Might not get any results, but hey, getting 60,000 pilots on board shouldn't be too difficult, should it. I would also work with all media outlets to educate them on the issue at hand, and to have them get this information out to the traveling public. Of course this might not work, either, since the average American attention span is measured in microseconds.

Of course, ALPA is working on this, and has been for years. But as we have witnessed with Washington, the powers that be will generally listen to those with the biggest checkbook. How big is yours?

2) Encourage my peers in the industry to both a: educate the new pilots coming up in the ranks as to why accepting lower wages actually hurts them as well as the profession, and to b:resign their positions at their respective companies when management chooses to issue pay cuts. Of course it won't be difficult to accomplish this, seeing as their are no pilots out their willing to take these positions for less than what we get paid.

And I agree that ALPA has been woefully inadequate in this regarding education. ALPA should begin this education initiative in HIGH SCHOOL career days, and continue that program through college and beyond. And as far as item b, well a national seniority list might solve that, but how to implement that is beyond me.

3) Mainline has a right to protect what is theirs, but when they give it away to the regionals, then it is pretty much gone.

Again, ALPA does need to learn to think much further down the road, especially in this regard. The negotiating capital that would be expended to regain that flying would be prohibitive at this point.

See, I'm not the same as any old ALPA cheerleader, and I don't personally believe that PCL and REZ are either. Does ALPA have flaws, yep! Does ALPA also do great things? Yep. Is ALPA worth the 1.95% it costs us? Some would debate that, but I believe it is a small (tax deductable) cost to us.

You would gain far more credibility by being constructive, rather than destructive.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[WayBack]

Well, what can I say?

FAIL!

Really didn't think you could do it. Just another loser who bitches and moans, but refuses to discuss any solutions of REAL substance.

Rez, is this you?

It's a shame. I actually am interested in real ideas, because instead of just complaining about our 'situation',

Wait a second, this sounds more like Obama.

I'd be far more interested, and you would have more credibility if you would present solutions instead. But I guess that goes beyond your mental capabilities.

Oh no! My credibility is lacking on FI!!! Aw shucks! Maybe it's because I don't feel the need to sit around and try to impress others with my deep thoughts about some has-been Union. I flew with a guy once at the airlines, and while were at the hotel bar, he tells our FA "Old fighter pilots can't get hired in the 135 world after we retire. So I had to rely on my cranium and get an education from Havard." Most guys who sit around and try to tell you how much they know about everything, usually can't balance their check book.....maybe that's why ALPA has problems balancing their budget?

I guess PCL was right.

I don't care what you say, that guy is never right about anything. Ok, maybe some things, once he told me his alone time ritual was dipping Wendy's french fries in his frosty. I must say it was quite tasty.

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Rez, is this you?

Wait a second, this sounds more like Obama.

Oh no! My credibility is lacking on FI!!! Aw shucks! Maybe it's because I don't feel the need to sit around and try to impress others with my deep thoughts about some has-been Union. I flew with a guy once at the airlines, and while were at the hotel bar, he tells our FA "Old fighter pilots can't get hired in the 135 world after we retire. So I had to rely on my cranium and get an education from Havard." Most guys who sit around and try to tell you how much they know about everything, usually can't balance their check book.....maybe that's why ALPA has problems balancing their budget?




I don't care what you say, that guy is never right about anything. Ok, maybe some things, once he told me his alone time ritual was dipping Wendy's french fries in his frosty. I must say it was quite tasty.

Whatever. You prove my point again and again. But thanks for playing.

Peace.

Rekks

Oh, not REZ, by the way.

 

[WayBack]

Here, I'll show you how this is done.

At first I wasn't going to respond to this, because I normally don't converse with people who ask a question, then answer it themselves....but my eyes scrolled over some stuff below.

2) Encourage my peers in the industry to both a: educate the new pilots coming up in the ranks as to why accepting lower wages actually hurts them as well as the profession, and to b:resign their positions at their respective companies when management chooses to issue pay cuts. Of course it won't be difficult to accomplish this, seeing as their are no pilots out their willing to take these positions for less than what we get paid.

I just want to make sure this is your idea. You said something above about ALPA is working on this, but I'm pretty sure you meant the other stuff. Atleast I hope so.
Either way, you really expect pilots to resign when management suggest pay cuts? Am I reading that correctly? Because if I am, then I have to tell you. The guys who are serious about doing this, have already done that. They left for other careers or other flying jobs. The others who claim they're going to do it, are just talking.
The airline would like you to leave. You cost too much. They want some pimple faced kid who is "just happy to have a job flying a jet!", for $18k a year.
Also, this would be hard for ALPA to recommend. More pilots quitting, less dues to pay for Worthless's and Prater's retirements.

And I agree that ALPA has been woefully inadequate in this regarding education. ALPA should begin this education initiative in HIGH SCHOOL career days, and continue that program through college and beyond. And as far as item b, well a national seniority list might solve that, but how to implement that is beyond me.

Ever hang around a flight school on your days off? I mean since you've been a pilot, I'm sorry, a Profession ALPA Pilot? You ever hear what those students or instructors say? "Any job would be better than instructing. Even if it pays the same or less, it's much better there". But it's not just that. In one of my new hire classes, ALPA came in and talked to us. Gave us the "ALPA is good, Company is Bad" speech, told us how the company wants us to take concessions, or else we lose our jobs. I kid you not, people in my class, mainly guys who were first time airline pilots said they don't care if they have to take a pay cut. They just want a job flying! We even had a female instructor tell us that she's going to vote yes on the pay cuts, because she doesn't want to go look for a new job.
I guess what I am trying to say, no matter what you tell them, how much you scare them. When it comes down to them getting a flying job, they are too friggin star gazed, and don't mind if they lose pay, just as long they're flying! Yeah, it sucks. But it's true. That's the type of mentality that is ruining this industry. Look at the guys who write a check to advance their careers as far and as fast as they can. You want to fly with a guy like that? He's paid for a job, in turn putting a paid pilot out of a job. Has he done more good for the industry or more bad? Personally, no amount of time he puts into working in the union can make up for the way he made his way there. He paid to put a pilot out of a job, now he thinks he knows about brotherhood and unity? He's a sham. He's a really bad, no talent, wannabe politician only looking out for his own good....while wearing sheep clothing, claiming to work for you.

Mainline has a right to protect what is theirs, but when they give it away to the regionals, then it is pretty much gone.

I agree, but ALPA has mainlines interest in mind first. Still amazes me that ALPA is primarily regionals, yet mainline has the control. Maybe it's because mainline pay hire dues. Or that President is always a mainline guy...how about get a regional pilot in there as President?

See, I'm not the same as any old ALPA cheerleader, and I don't personally believe that PCL and REZ are either

I never claimed you to be.
Rez tries and claim he's not. But he has a problem contradicting himself from thread to thread.
PCL on the other hand, that guy is so lost. I think his spaceship ran out of gas, and he will never return to earth.

You would gain far more credibility by being constructive, rather than destructive.

I'm not here on FI to gain credibility. I originally just came on here to peek around, until I saw a thread where Rez and PFT128 were throwing a hissy fit because someone said something bad about ALPA.
I'm like a dog. I smell the weak and keep on biting their ankles. Oh, or I'm like a train engineer, I keep shoveling feeding the coal into the fire.
I'm also like a gardener, I keep shoveling the manure.

speaking of manure, I have to go change my kids diaper. He's been loading his diapers with some big, stinky ALPAs today. .

 

[WayBack]

Whatever. You prove my point again and again. But thanks for playing.

No, it's not that I proved your point. It's because for some reason you want me to sit here and have a deep, thoughtful, heart to heart, "professional" conversation with you. Sorry, not going to happen.
If you want that, then log off FI and go down to the local coffee shop and talk to the chick in the corner reading the book titled "My Parents Didn't Love Me".
She can get all theosophical with you.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Sounds like your problem with with pilots with free market ideals that are willing to take pay cuts to keep a job.... not ALPA...

So how do you expect these pilots NOT take a paycut when we live in a free market, individualistic society of 'I got mine'?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

No, it's not that I proved your point. It's because for some reason you want me to sit here and have a deep, thoughtful, heart to heart, "professional" conversation with you. Sorry, not going to happen.

Is that because you are not a professional?

If you want that, then log off FI and go down to the local coffee shop and talk to the chick in the corner reading the book titled "My Parents Didn't Love Me".
She can get all theosophical with you.

She is not spreading lies, misinformation and being childish.... Are you sure its your childs diaper that needs changing? I kid, I kid... I know you don't wear a diaper...

 

[WayBack]

Sounds like your problem with with pilots with free market ideals that are willing to take pay cuts to keep a job.... not ALPA...

So how do you expect these pilots NOT take a paycut when we live in a free market, individualistic society of 'I got mine'?

You're partially correct. But those pilots wouldn't have taken that pay cut if ALPA reps weren't telling them that they would be furloughed, lose more flying or "thing could be worse". Those guys who buy into that crap are the ones who don't know any better and are easily impressionable. Like the politicians you strive to be, you prey on the weak, because others can see through your BS.

Pay cuts wouldn't be an issue if there weren't 50 different regionals flying for the same 6 mainline carriers. Also, if the one common union got together, came up with one level of pay across the board, then it would be harder for management to whipsaw.
But, the politicians at ALPA don't think that's how a union operates. Although truckers, heavy machinery and railroad unions work that way.
I know, Rez. I've heard it before, no real union operates like that. You know everything Rez, I forgot.

Is that because you are not a professional?

Your right, I'm not. Since I'm not an ALPA member, I am no longer a professional pilot in your eyes.
Being a non ALPA member sucks. Because when I chose to leave the crappy airline industry, I had to go find a new flying job. I also had to discuss my own salary, since I don't have a union to negotiate one for me. These bastards told me they were going to pay me based on experience and years I have flown previously. I know, it was dreadful, long grueling work, but in the end it got accomplished. Probably not as fast as ALPA would have gotten it done, but in the end it took about 2 weeks from start to finish. Doesn't it take you reps about 48 hours to complete salary negotiation? I thought so, it's because you guys know what you're doing and are good at it.
Let's not even discuss scheduling, that sucks! 14 min days off. I tell ya, they're trying to break me! You know these guys also told me they were paying for my type rating?! The nerve! Every real professional pilot pays his way to the top, just ask PFT128. He's a real man!

I must go now, but don't worry, I will be back later.