Quit ALPA Now!

[Rez O. Lewshun]

mind blowing.....

 

[WayBack]

You make my point for me. Pilots are not leaving this profession because of the lack of safety. Many of the pilots flying Jennys for E.L. Chord left the profession by way of untimely death in an aircraft accident. The fact that is not the case anymore speaks volumes to ALPA's fight to make piloting safer.

ALPA has had their hand in safety....seeing they can't do anything else.
But they're not the sole party. I'd like to think about all the lessons we've learned from other accidents and pilots. Or how about the advancement in technology? Let me guess, it was an ALPA engineer who designed all this new technology.
The list is long, but ALPA's is short. Sully has done more for this industry by himself, than ALPA has done in the last 75yrs.

ALPA just likes to take credit for others work.

 

[Nevets]

Nice spin, but you missed the point. Safety isn't a top priority. Pay has always been the top priority. Just look in your Bible.

No, I didn't miss the point. You just don't agree with mine that if this profession wasn't safe people wouldnt be in it to complain about pay.

With slogans like "Live to fight another day" they're ASKING for management's abuse.

Again, even if agreed with what you say here, it still does not disprove what I said that its not like ALPA is telling CEOs to pay us less.

Any guess would be pure speculation. ALPA is and always has been on property at Mesa with JO at the helm.

You give JO too much credit if you don't think Mesa pilots' plight would not be worse.

The current practice of bending over and taking it in the shorts for the preservation of the Union is setting unacceptable precedents for the industry. Living to fight another day is only helping assure that the bar stays lower.

The current practice of pilots bashing entities that try to help pilots by making piloting safer and helping increase pay is setting an unacceptable precedent for the industry.

Totally relevant! It shows that safety isn't a top priority for pilots.

Irrelevant because people wouldn't be in the profession complaining about pay if it wasn't safe to be in it to begin with. Much less people flying less if they felt that transportation by means of aircraft was unsafe and thus less pilots required.

You conveniently left out the part I mentioned about rest related issues regarding pay. If a pilot can't afford to live in base (a very common occurence these days) he or she must commute. At the regional level, most pilots can't afford a hotel room and must settle for a crashpad. No studies need to be done to know that the quality of rest at a crashpad is nowhere near as good as a hotel room. Some pilots can't even afford a crashpad and resort to staying in the crew room. Are these pilots Safe?

I'm not saying that we get paid enough. I'm talking about how ALPA is not worthless and my first point in that is because they have made piloting safer. Sorry if age 65 seemed like a distraction but I was just pointing out how in your deduction that if there is more attrition there is less safety. So the if there is less attrition, age 65, there is more safety. But Im sure you give ALPA grief about age 65 as well.

I thought we were in the regionals forum...no? Anywho, you brought up age 65 (I suspect in a lame attempt to divert attention away from the topic) And for the record, you said, "Age 65 has also stopped the turnover at regionals". Stopped? FALSE. Pilots are still leaving the airline industry regardless of Age 65 (Due to lack of pay and benefits). Replacing an experienced line pilot with a newbie...do you honestly think this is making the industry safer? [/quote

We are talking about a union that represents pilots at the regionals, majors, cargo, etc. And why would we be restricted to solely talking about just regionals just because we are in the regionals forum. But I will concede that I used the wrong term. It didn't stop attrition but it sure hasn't helped it though.

Because safety comes after pay and benefits. If you can't address the first two issues, you're going to have a problem retaining talent. In effect...making the industry (not the act of piloting, mind you) less safe.

Again, we disagree on where safety comes. The reason why people complain about pay (not that they are wrong by doing so) is because they don't have the need to complain about safety. If you can't make it safe, you are going to have problems retaining pilots because of their untimely death in an aircraft accident.

Nevets, I'll concede that ALPA has assisted in making the act of piloting safer. As far as making the industry safer? I have conclusively proven that due to ALPA's incompetence, the industry is less safe. You do, however, exemplify the typical disconnect between ALPA and the pilots. Pilots need better pay and benefits...and ALPA is too busy working on side issues.

And by making piloting safer it has made the industry, profession, hobby, whatever else you want to call it, safer because it involves piloting.

Maybe it will take a few more cases like AAA before ALPA catches on.

No one said ALPA is perfect.

ALPA has had their hand in safety....seeing they can't do anything else.
But they're not the sole party. I'd like to think about all the lessons we've learned from other accidents and pilots. Or how about the advancement in technology? Let me guess, it was an ALPA engineer who designed all this new technology.
The list is long, but ALPA's is short. Sully has done more for this industry by himself, than ALPA has done in the last 75yrs.

ALPA just likes to take credit for others work.

I didn't try to make it seem as though this profession is safe only because of ALPA. I've tried to say many times that with the help of ALPA, this profession is safer.

 

[WayBack]

I didn't try to make it seem as though this profession is safe only because of ALPA. I've tried to say many times that with the help of ALPA, this profession is safer.

Again, that's very debatable. Lot's of things need to be fixed, very important things, such as rest, duty, and pay. Sure, ALPA has been working on all of those things for a while, but have yet to pull the trigger and get any of them changed.
Well, except for pay. They do a good job agreeing with pay cuts.

 

[CopilotDoug]

They do a good job agreeing with pay cuts.

While simultaneously taking measures to protect the pay (if not raising it) of the ALPA officers.

 

[Tarzan]

Again, that's very debatable. Lot's of things need to be fixed, very important things, such as rest, duty, and pay. Sure, ALPA has been working on all of those things for a while, but have yet to pull the trigger and get any of them changed.
Well, except for pay. They do a good job agreeing with pay cuts.

I am not what you'd consider a huge ALPA fan but your history recall is flawed. ALPA is what instituted many of the beginnings of the rest rules you see today.

 

[WayBack]

I am not what you'd consider a huge ALPA fan but your history recall is flawed. ALPA is what instituted many of the beginnings of the rest rules you see today.

How is it flawed? ALPA has been working on rest rules ever since my relatives started flying in the 1960's.
They agreed on those rules, and now they're only making progress on new rules because Congress is pushing for it. Otherwise ALPA has no power to push across a new set of rules, otherwise they would have done it years ago.
ALPA is also RLA....which is completely outdated.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ALPA has had their hand in safety....seeing they can't do anything else.
But they're not the sole party. I'd like to think about all the lessons we've learned from other accidents and pilots. Or how about the advancement in technology? Let me guess, it was an ALPA engineer who designed all this new technology.
The list is long, but ALPA's is short.

Produce this list....

Sully has done more for this industry by himself, than ALPA has done in the last 75yrs.

easy to say... impossible to back up..

ALPA just likes to take credit for others work.

your claim... back it up....

How is it flawed? ALPA has been working on rest rules ever since my relatives started flying in the 1960's.
They agreed on those rules,

Jsut as you've agreed on them. ALPA doesn't get to vote on congressional legislation or FAA policy... that would be for congress and the FAA.

and now they're only making progress on new rules because Congress is pushing for it. Otherwise ALPA has no power to push across a new set of rules, otherwise they would have done it years ago.

on this you are correct... so why put the onus on ALPA any more than yourself.

ALPA is also RLA....which is completely outdated.

no the RLA is the Fed.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Sully has done more for this industry by himself, than ALPA has done in the last 75yrs.

Undeniable. How many times has Prater been invited onto News Networks and TV Shows to voice the plight of the industry and inform the flying public?

Point goes to Sully.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell.