Quit ALPA Now!

[Speedtape]

Let's talk about taking.
Management has taken away pensions, up to 40% of pay from the pilots, days off, hotels continue to get worse, flight bennies are getting hacked at DCI carriers.....etc. You name it, it's getting taken away. Pilots are giving up everything.
But who is walking away with multi million dollar bonuses while their airlines are in the hole? I know pilots have no control over that, but when are you willing to say enough is enough?
Thing is management knows you will take a beating like a stray dog because you are "living the dream". You'll do what ever it takes to fly an airplane for a living. You've invested so much to get where you are today, and you won't walk away. You'll sit around in the crew room, complain about it and then blow smoke up each others dupas about how it HAS to get better. It can't get any worse!
But also we're a brotherhood who is looking out for one another, but you know damn well the guy that you just bought a sandwich for lunch, will stab you in the back to advance his carrier. Just like ALPA MEC's look after the senior pilot group only, and the junior guys are CONSTANTLY getting bent over. Look at the contracts. Unless you're a senior FO, you're toast!
I've read on here that some MEC's would rather furlough it's pilots than look for alternative methods to keep as many guys employed, but the MEC wasn't talking to management, because they were mad at them. You kidding me!?

Email me in 5 yrs and let's see how much more you have given, but yet your job has improved.

Hmmm--you seem jaded. Maybe you are working or furloughed from the wrong airline. In the past, I have lost more than one flying job, have been furloughed, and have been junior at several airlines--by the way, so have all those Senior guys that you have such contempt for. When you got into this business, did you understand the seniority system when you applied--or better yet Juniority? It sounds like you are not coping too well and maybe there is a good reason. Hang in there--some day you will be Senior and then you will have to be burdened with the guilt that you are trying to impose on others--but, then I doubt it!

 

[merlindrvr88]

I wouldn't work for JB--their days are numbered. SWA is a great airline and I have many friends there--some like it and some don't! I wouldn't roll over for either. Where do you work?

Would you work for SWA, they are not ALPO and you said you would never work for a non-ALPO carrier? Just asking.

 

[Tarzan]

Email me in 5 yrs and let's see how much more you have given, but yet your job has improved.

Sorry, let us know how you like having your CVR's downloaded and used by management for punitive actions. ALPA certainly has its shortcomings and many members with votes see them and are beginning to stir the pot instead of taking things on blind faith. However, when things such a the ARC and other nasty things such as a the CVR issue, I'd rather have some sort of representation even if we don't get what we want, at least we had a vehicle to fight against it. Suddenly get that issue with your medical? Rather have ALPA offices to help. FAA action or company action? Sorry, while it may be that you can afford a lengthy fight but at least I have some back up there as well.

Wayback, I recognize you like to stir the pot or toss about feces to see who reacts. However just as guys like Rez, you make those who have positions like you, seem parochial. You obviously had a bad experience in the past. ALPA ain't perfect by a long shot but the protections offered beat what you have without legal back up.

 

[Speedtape]

Would you work for SWA, they are not ALPO and you said you would never work for a non-ALPO carrier? Just asking.

SWA is reported to be a great company. I have friends that work there--some like it alot; some are not that happy. Personally, I have no desire to work there for many reasons--not being ALPA is one of the reasons. So good luck to you; that's one less person you have to compete with for a job there. Good Luck!

 

[CopilotDoug]

However, I can attest to the fact that my job at my Company is better because of ALPA, the local leadership, and the other pilots in ALPA at my Company that have worked together over the years through 3 contracts to make significant gains in pay, benefits, and work rules. It has been worth every penny I have paid and every effort I have made. It is what you make it!

And that's what it's all about...YOUR job at YOUR company. Never mind the fact that YOUR pilot group hasn't done ******************** to bridge the pay gap between mainline and regionals, in effect doing a great disservice to the profession and the career.

I will accept the fact that all do not share the same results

because of the selfish of individuals like yourself, as you pointed out above...

--because they did not make the same efforts! If your pilot group does not have the fortitude or ability to achieve a good contract--it's because it's members are spineless and chose not to be unified. Was that your choice?

Again...blame the pilots...a true ALPA follower.

If you are not happy with your 50 seat rates, don't blame it on ALPA! Your pilot group gets what it negotiates!

Don't those bumper stickers say something to the effect of "We Are ALPA"? "We" being the pilots? So if the pilots negotiate a ********************ty contract...it's really ALPA negotiating the ********************ty contract, no?

 

[CX880]

pilots are ti's own worst enemy. management is the master. alpa is the leash

 

[samballs]

SWA is reported to be a great company. I have friends that work there--some like it alot; some are not that happy. Personally, I have no desire to work there for many reasons--not being ALPA is one of the reasons. So good luck to you; that's one less person you have to compete with for a job there. Good Luck!

You're really satisfied with your 50 seat rates?!

 

[sunlitpath]

ALPA can be likened somewhat to the the US Federal Government at the present time. ALPA and the Federal Government both have many individuals with good intentions within their ranks. However, both have too many groups and interests to answer to, and therefore they lose their effectiveness. It seems that unions do have a valuable role at airlines to some degree. This role is best served by a local, in house organization; which is demonstrated at airlines like Southwest, American, and UPS. Pilots must take personal responsibility for the actions of their own pilot group, and not surrender autonomy and money to a useless national organization. The laziness and fear that exists in many individual pilot groups often prevents in-house unions from materializing. When suggestions for forming an in-house union are suggested from time to time, ALPA officers and members often demonize the efforts in fear losing the status quo.

 

[CopilotDoug]

+1

ALPA can be likened somewhat to the the US Federal Government at the present time. ALPA and the Federal Government both have many individuals with good intentions within their ranks. However, both have too many groups and interests to answer to, and therefore they lose their effectiveness. It seems that unions do have a valuable role at airlines to some degree. This role is best served by a local, in house organization; which is demonstrated at airlines like Southwest, American, and UPS. Pilots must take personal resonsibility for the actions of their own pilot group, and not surrender autonomy and money to a useless national organization. The laziness and fear that exists in many individual pilot groups often prevents in-house unions from materializing. When suggestions for forming an in-house union are suggested from time to time, ALPA officers and members often demonize the efforts in fear losing the status quo.

Well said, Sunlit

 

[Speedtape]

And that's what it's all about...YOUR job at YOUR company. Never mind the fact that YOUR pilot group hasn't done ******************** to bridge the pay gap between mainline and regionals, in effect doing a great disservice to the profession and the career.

My job at my Company are the things that I have some direct control over. I don't have any control over your job and your Company. However, at my Company, we have raised the standards in pay and benefits in OUR CBA through the last 2 contracts within OUR regional industry. If you have an inadequate contract, then you have two choices. First, you could apply at another carrier, which is probably not an answer for now. Secondly, you can get off your malcontent touche and effect change within your pilot group by utilizing whatever bargaining tools you have available. No one has a more vested interest in that goal and the return than you. No one else will do it for you. You and your fellow pilots at your Company are the only ones that can make that change. Utilizing ALPA can help, but ultimately, it is up to the resolve, will, and committment of your pilot group.

because of the selfish of individuals like yourself, as you pointed out above...

Again...blame the pilots...a true ALPA follower.

Don't those bumper stickers say something to the effect of "We Are ALPA"? "We" being the pilots? So if the pilots negotiate a ********************ty contract...it's really ALPA negotiating the ********************ty contract, no?

Please! I am not responsible for you. Call it what you want. If you are on this board, trying to debate fairness and justice, then you are the problem and not the solution--or even working toward it. Utilizing ALPA has benefitted my Pilot group. However, ultimately, it was not up to ALPA to achieve our goals in pay, benefits, and work improvements. It was up to every pilot in my Company and our local Leadership to make a committment to assess, negotiate, and achieve our negotiating goals. Utilizing ALPA, we had the financial assistance, legal assistance, and resources to accomplish OUR goals. However, it all starts and ends with your pilots and your leadership. As a pilot group, we were able to pattern bargain because of the accomplishments of other ALPA carriers.

In summary, your pilot group will get what they negotiate! It is totally dependent on the committment that your pilot group is willing to make!

 

[JoeMerchant]

ALPA can be likened somewhat to the the US Federal Government at the present time. ALPA and the Federal Government both have many individuals with good intentions within their ranks. However, both have too many groups and interests to answer to, and therefore they lose their effectiveness. It seems that unions do have a valuable role at airlines to some degree. This role is best served by a local, in house organization; which is demonstrated at airlines like Southwest, American, and UPS. Pilots must take personal responsibility for the actions of their own pilot group, and not surrender autonomy and money to a useless national organization. The laziness and fear that exists in many individual pilot groups often prevents in-house unions from materializing. When suggestions for forming an in-house union are suggested from time to time, ALPA officers and members often demonize the efforts in fear losing the status quo.

Well said.

 

[Speedtape]

Well said.

Joe,
You have one of the best Regional CBAs in the industry. That's the facts. How has ALPA failed you?

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Joe,
You have one of the best Regional CBAs in the industry. That's the facts. How has ALPA failed you?

Because he didn't get his seniority number on the DAL list!

 

[BeCareful!]

As we all shall soon see, ALPA gave away AAA's pension without doing its due diligence. USAPA is in the process of righting that wrong. Never in 15 years of ALPA membership have I ever had such responsive representation from such clear thinking individuals as I have with USAPA. Are they perfect? No! Are they a more effective organization that ALPA? Without any doubt!

Although I'm sure ALPA has shredded all the evidence of its embarrassing, flailing attempt to stay in power at US Airways, a look at that period in ALPA's history certainly illustrates the most shameful, baseless power-grab attempt in aviation union history. They sucked and they knew it, so they employed lies, half truths, and fear mongering in their efforts. Didn't work. So sad, too bad...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe,
You have one of the best Regional CBAs in the industry. That's the facts. How has ALPA failed you?

CMR had the best CBA in the industry...PDT and ALG had great ones too. So did Air Wisconscin and ACA. I'm not interested in having the best contract in the industry...I want job security and the ability to move laterally if I need to. ALPA has failed in that regard....

The best CBA does you no good when you are standing in the unemployment line....

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Never in 15 years of ALPA membership have I ever had such responsive representation from such clear thinking individuals as I have with USAPA.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Speedtape]

CMR had the best CBA in the industry...PDT and ALG had great ones too. So did Air Wisconscin and ACA. I'm not interested in having the best contract in the industry...I want job security and the ability to move laterally if I need to. ALPA has failed in that regard....

The best CBA does you no good when you are standing in the unemployment line....

Are you standing in the unemployment line? Job security in this industry is at best, temporal. So, live day by day. Your job is relatively safe for at least the next 10 years--or the next terrorist attack.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Are you standing in the unemployment line? Job security in this industry is at best, temporal. So, live day by day. Your job is relatively safe for at least the next 10 years--or the next terrorist attack.

You aren't really making a case for ALPA. Why can't we have brand scope to prevent one group from being whipsawed within the brand? Why can't we transport our longevity accross company lines like other professions?

Without those things, it's best to have a pragmatic MEC that doesn't try to price themselves out of a job....Luckily, it appears we finally have that at ASA.

Just because you and I aren't standing in the unemployment line today, doesn't mean we might not be there soon...It would be nice if ALPA actually did something in that arena...

 

[Speedtape]

You aren't really making a case for ALPA. Why can't we have brand scope to prevent one group from being whipsawed within the brand? Why can't we transport our longevity accross company lines like other professions?
Why do the stars go on shining? It must be ALPA's fault!

Without those things, it's best to have a pragmatic MEC that doesn't try to price themselves out of a job....Luckily, it appears we finally have that at ASA.
Well, not sure that the last one wasn't pragmatic! However, the jury is still out on this one! But, You and I will ultimately be the Judges of that!

Just because you and I aren't standing in the unemployment line today, doesn't mean we might not be there soon...It would be nice if ALPA actually did something in that arena...

I have been in the unemployment line before! The good news is I survived! I don't see us being in the unemloyment line anytime soon--but, if we are, things will be much worse than they are today, and there will be plenty of people in front of us. ALPA cannot be all things! However, through ALPA, you did get some of your "Pay for Training" money back!

Are you running for MEC Chairman?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

He should probably find the lost meeting minutes before he is trusted with new ones.