Quit ALPA Now!

[BoilerUP]

Would it really be too much to ask to keep crew room lawyers in the freaking crew rooms?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Of course its a priority. What other entity has helped make this profession as safe as it is?

The FAA and NTSB come to mind.

Airlines come and go but many of the pilots who worked there go to other airlines and ALPA continues to make the industry more safe for them despite the poor decisions of their previous employers.

This career has become a joke. A safer joke, but a joke none-the-less.

And at least ALPA has its credibility intact, and that has paid off in dividends for the pilot groups [sarcasm]

 

[ATR Pirate]

do i need another reason to laugh at the people who still pay 2% to ALPA..i hope they go bankrupt..i left my ALPA airline and went to a better place, wish i had done it sooner

 

[quinnlake]

...And the alternative would be what, exactly?

By the way, what sort of work do you do for YOUR pilot group?

EXACTLY-- Those the bitch the most contribute the least.

 

[CopilotDoug]

What other entity has helped make this profession as safe as it is?

Correction...it's no longer a profession, but a hobby.

(A safer hobby at that)

 

[Nevets]

The FAA and NTSB come to mind.

This career has become a joke. A safer joke, but a joke none-the-less.

And at least ALPA has its credibility intact, and that has paid off in dividends for the pilot groups [sarcasm]

Correction...it's no longer a profession, but a hobby.

(A safer hobby at that)

And who is a party to every NTSB investigation dealing with an ALPA carrier (whose expertise from ALPA's Engineering and Air Safty department they rely on)? And who is asked to participate in ARCs and Call to Action meetings by the FAA? And who is the current FAA administrator?

ALPA has paid off in dividends to all pilots, members or not by helping make the act of piloting safer, whether its a hobby, for business, entertainment, humanitarian, or as a way to earn a living.

 

[Tarzan]

And who is a party to every NTSB investigation dealing with an ALPA carrier (whose expertise from ALPA's Engineering and Air Safty department they rely on)? And who is asked to participate in ARCs and Call to Action meetings by the FAA? And who is the current FAA administrator?

ALPA has paid off in dividends to all pilots, members or not by helping make the act of piloting safer, whether its a hobby, for business, entertainment, humanitarian, or as a way to earn a living.

Come on now Nevets. Every organization eventually outlives its usefulness. Possibly ALPA has met its end of useful existence. Simply because they are there means only that they have been around longer and allowed to become more bloated with useless positions on the backs of its union members. Don't get me wrong. I still believe an organization that extends protections bound by law is a good thing. ALPA itself has been around too long and grown too powerful as lobby organization. Fire every single head of ALPA every other term and I begin to feel better about them. Until them, they are just another outfit that is self serving for the "policy makers."

 

[Nevets]

Come on now Nevets. Every organization eventually outlives its usefulness. Possibly ALPA has met its end of useful existence. Simply because they are there means only that they have been around longer and allowed to become more bloated with useless positions on the backs of its union members. Don't get me wrong. I still believe an organization that extends protections bound by law is a good thing. ALPA itself has been around too long and grown too powerful as lobby organization. Fire every single head of ALPA every other term and I begin to feel better about them. Until them, they are just another outfit that is self serving for the "policy makers."

Just because you don't agree with every single head of ALPA does not mean that ALPA has outlived its usefulness. I dont always agree with everything ALPA does. And I'm not necessarily against term limits either. But by definition, ALPA, or any other organization is self serving.

 

[Tarzan]

Just because you don't agree with every single head of ALPA does not mean that ALPA has outlived its usefulness. I dont always agree with everything ALPA does. And I'm not necessarily against term limits either. But by definition, ALPA, or any other organization is self serving.

That becomes the problem though. Term limits alleviate the issue though. However, ALPA has been around a VERY long time. Plenty of time for certain habits to formed that do not necessarily justify their existence. My thought was pure speculation as far as ALPA outliving its usefulness as an organization. Although witht he current train of thought, it may have in fact be reaching the end of its existence.

 

[WayBack]

ALPA and Obama have so much in common.
They both claim that everything that is good, is because of them.
Everything that is bad, is because of someone else.

ALPA making things safer? Debatable. They've been fighting for new flight and duty rules for the last 40yrs. Everything is an ALPA contract is pretty close to FAA FAR's. Maybe :30 or :60 minute difference.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What is interesting are all of the dynamics that effect this profession. The most significant is the market. The Airline industry when treated like a market commodity and not a national infrastructure must constantly grow to keep cost down.

When the bankers and Wall St. clowns take over the infrastructure and turn it into casino capitalism, there are going to be significant up and downs and winners and losers. Labor will always be a cost target.

Fact is, we view everything thru the market lens. There is nothing that should not be bought and sold on the market....

Live by the market, die by the market.... to expect unions to counter global market forces is ignorant.

 

[CopilotDoug]

And who is a party to every NTSB investigation dealing with an ALPA carrier (whose expertise from ALPA's Engineering and Air Safty department they rely on)? And who is asked to participate in ARCs and Call to Action meetings by the FAA? And who is the current FAA administrator?

For all that Babbitt is worth, we might as well have Cohen heading up the FAA. We haven't heard much about flight and duty times in a while have we? When asked whether or not disparaging pay rates contributed to fatigue, Babbitt was johnny-on-the-spot to roll the pilots under the bus in front of a senate subcomittee. To paraphrase, he said something along the lines of "This isn't about pay....it's about a lack of professionalism" All of that other crap about ALPA watching investigations from the sidelines is filler that they fluff up their resume with. At the end of the day...it doesn't mean jack.

ALPA has paid off in dividends to all pilots, members or not by helping make the act of piloting safer, whether its a hobby, for business, entertainment, humanitarian, or as a way to earn a living.

I disagree. Lower pay rates means higher turnover which equates to lost talent which in turn makes it a little more dangerous to be the flying public.

Thanks for dropping the ball ALPA.

 

[Nevets]

That becomes the problem though. Term limits alleviate the issue though. However, ALPA has been around a VERY long time. Plenty of time for certain habits to formed that do not necessarily justify their existence. My thought was pure speculation as far as ALPA outliving its usefulness as an organization. Although witht he current train of thought, it may have in fact be reaching the end of its existence.

Then we should do something about it rather than just complain.

ALPA and Obama have so much in common.
They both claim that everything that is good, is because of them.
Everything that is bad, is because of someone else.

ALPA making things safer? Debatable. They've been fighting for new flight and duty rules for the last 40yrs. Everything is an ALPA contract is pretty close to FAA FAR's. Maybe :30 or :60 minute difference.

Debatable? Not really. ALPA has been instrumental in helping bring many things to piloting that make it safer from the Standard T panel, to ASAP/FOAQ, to new rest rules in the near future. And I can go on and on in just safety, not to mention other things on how they have protected its members from some of the management types out there.

For all that Babbitt is worth, we might as well have Cohen heading up the FAA. We haven't heard much about flight and duty times in a while have we? When asked whether or not disparaging pay rates contributed to fatigue, Babbitt was johnny-on-the-spot to roll the pilots under the bus in front of a senate subcomittee. To paraphrase, he said something along the lines of "This isn't about pay....it's about a lack of professionalism" All of that other crap about ALPA watching investigations from the sidelines is filler that they fluff up their resume with. At the end of the day...it doesn't mean jack.

Doesn't mean jack? That is your argument? Nothing to back up that claim? Don't be so quick to throw Babbitt under the bus as well. His tenure is not over yet. And I'm confident that he will change the rest rules in the near future.

I disagree. Lower pay rates means higher turnover which equates to lost talent which in turn makes it a little more dangerous to be the flying public.

Thanks for dropping the ball ALPA.

Even if I agreed with your premise, what you said about turnover did not disprove the fact that ALPA has made piloting safer.

But you can't have it both ways anyways. You blame ALPA for age 65, yet that helped the turnover you say erodes safety.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Doesn't mean jack? That is your argument? Nothing to back up that claim? Don't be so quick to throw Babbitt under the bus as well. His tenure is not over yet. And I'm confident that he will change the rest rules in the near future.

Yes...that is my position. We're not flying Jenny's for E.L. Chord today. There will ALWAYS be room for improvement. But as far as the job itself goes, when it can't pay the bills anymore, all the safety stuff becomes window dressing.

Even if I agreed with your premise, what you said about turnover did not disprove the fact that ALPA has made piloting safer.

But you can't have it both ways anyways. You blame ALPA for age 65, yet that helped the turnover you say erodes safety.

No...my position primarily applies to the regionals. They're just stepping stones, you know.

 

[Nevets]

Yes...that is my position. We're not flying Jenny's for E.L. Chord today. There will ALWAYS be room for improvement. But as far as the job itself goes, when it can't pay the bills anymore, all the safety stuff becomes window dressing.

No...my position primarily applies to the regionals. They're just stepping stones, you know.

Still nothing to back up your position though. Of course there is always room for improvement, hence why ALPA is at the sunshine meeting today and pushing congress to pass HR3371.

I don't think the relatives of Colgan 3407 think the safety stuff is window dressing.

Age 65 has also stopped the turnover at regionals so your argument holds no water.