PBS Frontline expose' on regional airline industry

[CopilotDoug]

But where was our representation in this???? Why isn't ALPA standing up and making a bigger stink about this? Frankly, ALPA is being far too civil about it- the gloves need to come off in order to affect change.

Don't plan on the gloves coming off anytime soon. Civility is ALPA's course of action...has been for many years. It's how they build "credibility" (even if it's at the expense of the membership)

If you can accept the fact that ALPA is looking out for ALPA's best interests FIRST...then you won't be so disappointed in the future. It's all about realistic expectations...and ALPA doesn't deliver on expectations.

Don't forget to mail your dues.

 

[Brody1]

Actually, he's increadibly effective at selling his point and message. Unfortunately, it favors the airlines and their management- not us, the pilots, and our plight. He works for regional management- doesn't give a d*&n about you or I. Management sure is getting their money's worth from this scumbag.............................

.....

He's anything but effective. Most people - both inside and outside the industry - see him as advocating a system that directily leads to aviation accidents. He's perceived as everything that's wrong with the system- profit margins over safety. He's not fooling anyone, and even HE knows that. His body language spoke very loudly to me in this interview - that he didn't really believe what he was saying. Miles did a great job of leading him down a seemingly innocent path, and then ambushing him. In the end, Cohen had that 'deer in the headlights' look. This episode of Frontline has the potential to jumpstart the legislative process that stalled last year. Not to say I agree with all the proposed changes, but in many ways, we'll be moving in the right direction.

 

[JumpersAway]

He's anything but effective. Most people - both inside and outside the industry - see him as advocating a system that directily leads to aviation accidents. He's perceived as everything that's wrong with the system- profit margins over safety. He's not fooling anyone, and even HE knows that. His body language spoke very loudly to me in this interview - that he didn't really believe what he was saying. Miles did a great job of leading him down a seemingly innocent path, and then ambushing him. In the end, Cohen had that 'deer in the headlights' look. This episode of Frontline has the potential to jumpstart the legislative process that stalled last year. Not to say I agree with all the proposed changes, but in many ways, we'll be moving in the right direction.

Unfortunately he sells his rubish well- that's why we have to "restart" the legislative process. In short, you're seeing special intrest lobby money at work.

 

[Fred Rogers]

Its subtle but if you notice, Roger Cohen is telling the truth. No one is forcing you to work for Colgan. Another words, why would a company change their ways when people still show up for work? No one is forcing you to commute in the back of cargo planes. Average pay for a regional pilot is not 1200 dollars per month. Safety is the number one priority. Im not saying all of the above are OK but it is what it is. Roger Cohen is speaking on behalf of the company, what do you guys expect?

Thanks boss!

 

[Abernathy]

I can't stand the guy, I really can't. But where was our representation in this???? Why isn't ALPA standing up and making a bigger stink about this? Frankly, ALPA is being far too civil about it- the gloves need to come off in order to affect change.QUOTE]

ALPA national has become an entity solely capable of setting up glamorous photo ops and putting out a glossy magazine that costs you and I unreasonably close to $1 million/yr to publish because "some people" haven't caught up to the internet age yet.

The gloves won't come off because, like national politics, why "change" the system that got you elected and pays you hundreds of grand each year to pretty much NOT improve conditions for the people who you're supposed to represent?

 

[Nevets]

Don't plan on the gloves coming off anytime soon. Civility is ALPA's course of action...has been for many years. It's how they build "credibility" (even if it's at the expense of the membership)

If you can accept the fact that ALPA is looking out for ALPA's best interests FIRST...then you won't be so disappointed in the future. It's all about realistic expectations...and ALPA doesn't deliver on expectations.

Don't forget to mail your dues.

Of course ALPA looks out for ALPA's best interest. Lucky for you that ALPA's best interest are in the best interest of our profession. But you are right in expectations. ALPA is not almighty. Nothing earthly is almighty. So ALPA may want us all to be as safe as possible, paid handsomely, and quality of life as good as you want but it simply cannot snap its fingers and make it happen. There are other forces at work. ALPA puts its force behind the profession. Sometimes that force is enough to make things happen, sometimes enough to keep things from getting worse, and sometimes ALPA gets steamrolled. But if ALPA's force was never there, the likes of Cohen and the RAA would have its day every day.

Dues check off for me, by the way.

ALPA national has become an entity solely capable of setting up glamorous photo ops and putting out a glossy magazine that costs you and I unreasonably close to $1 million/yr to publish because "some people" haven't caught up to the internet age yet.

The gloves won't come off because, like national politics, why "change" the system that got you elected and pays you hundreds of grand each year to pretty much NOT improve conditions for the people who you're supposed to represent?

Really? I guess the half dozen congressional hearings was nothing? Or the NTSB hearings are nothing? Or the Call To Action meetings? Or the ARC? Or the White Paper? And that is just about this one subject! Do you even read that magazine? It tells you about a quarter of what your union does for you and your profession.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that maybe ALPA was not asked to comment? Or that they were asked but it wasn't shown on this snipet?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Of course ALPA looks out for ALPA's best interest. Lucky for you that ALPA's best interest are in the best interest of our profession.

The focus needs to be shifted from the profession to the pilots.

 

[DoinTime]

The focus needs to be shifted from the profession to the pilots.

Shifting focus to individual pilots is exactly how this profession got into the mess that its currently in. The entire scope discussion can be summarized by saying that small groups of pilots acted in their own interests without regard to preserving the profession. These pilots took what was best for them and left nothing for future generations of pilots.

 

[Jon Rivoli]

ALPA caused this problem. ALPA threw those guys at Colgan under the bus. They did it to preserve to pay and benefits of the senior pilots at legacy carriers. If you're junior at an ALPA carrier, piss off, you're furlough fodder. Regional Jets were a bargaining chip: 50 seats; 70 seats; 76 seats. Do I hear 85? 85, how about 90? 100? Son, you don't want to fly those little planes any way. They don't say Boeing on the side of them, there not REAL airliners. Just take another bite of that ******************** sandwich, I'll be retiring just as soon as I turn 60, no make that 65, then you can upgrade and enjoy this "PROFESSION" that I have preserved for you. Keep paying your dues kiddo.

In the last eight years about 10,000 entry level jobs at the legacies have become career positions at the regionals. That's ALPA!

 

[Smarta$$]

Its subtle but if you notice, Roger Cohen is telling the truth. No one is forcing you to work for Colgan. Another words, why would a company change their ways when people still show up for work? No one is forcing you to commute in the back of cargo planes. Average pay for a regional pilot is not 1200 dollars per month. Safety is the number one priority. Im not saying all of the above are OK but it is what it is. Roger Cohen is speaking on behalf of the company, what do you guys expect?

Explain?

 

[CopilotDoug]

The focus needs to be shifted from the profession to the pilots.

I erroneously referred to this industry as a profession. It's closer to a hobby. And it has become a hobby on ALPA's watch.

 

[Nevets]

The focus needs to be shifted from the profession to the pilots.

Focusing on the profession helps all pilots in the profession.

ALPA caused this problem. ALPA threw those guys at Colgan under the bus. They did it to preserve to pay and benefits of the senior pilots at legacy carriers. If you're junior at an ALPA carrier, piss off, you're furlough fodder. Regional Jets were a bargaining chip: 50 seats; 70 seats; 76 seats. Do I hear 85? 85, how about 90? 100? Son, you don't want to fly those little planes any way. They don't say Boeing on the side of them, there not REAL airliners. Just take another bite of that ******************** sandwich, I'll be retiring just as soon as I turn 60, no make that 65, then you can upgrade and enjoy this "PROFESSION" that I have preserved for you. Keep paying your dues kiddo.

In the last eight years about 10,000 entry level jobs at the legacies have become career positions at the regionals. That's ALPA!

Yeah, pilots are their own worst enemy. And not just ALPA pilots either.

I erroneously referred to this industry as a profession. It's closer to a hobby. And it has become a hobby on ALPA's watch.

And you think the likes of JO, Lorenzo, Tilton, etc would have made this profession into what? You make it sound as if ALPA's master plan is to erode everyone's pay.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ALPA caused this problem. ALPA threw those guys at Colgan under the bus. They did it to preserve to pay and benefits of the senior pilots at legacy carriers. If you're junior at an ALPA carrier, piss off, you're furlough fodder. Regional Jets were a bargaining chip: 50 seats; 70 seats; 76 seats. Do I hear 85? 85, how about 90? 100? Son, you don't want to fly those little planes any way. They don't say Boeing on the side of them, there not REAL airliners. Just take another bite of that ******************** sandwich, I'll be retiring just as soon as I turn 60, no make that 65, then you can upgrade and enjoy this "PROFESSION" that I have preserved for you. Keep paying your dues kiddo.

In the last eight years about 10,000 entry level jobs at the legacies have become career positions at the regionals. That's ALPA!

Because you never patronize outsourcing of other industries.... correct?

You can blame ALPA, or you can look in the mirror... Pilots will complain about how they are getting screwed by outsourcing and that ALPA allowed it to happen... then those same pilots will take thier cash and go to another industry and undercut some guy trying to make a living by doing buisness with someone who outsources....

Tell us.... how was ALPA supposed to have stopped this from ever happening...... in addition, lets deal in the here and now.... how is ALPA ( and only ALPA? or can the APA and RAH pilots be a part of the solution? What about the Skywest and jB pilots... can they help too? Or is ALPA responsible for everyone?)

How is ALPA supposed to fix this....

Shall DAL/UAL/CAL start flying regional jets at regional pay rates? Why would management agree to allow 90 seaters on mainline property when they can get regional guys to fly them at regional rates?


Finally, this was a 10 minute preview of the Frontline show for next week. Let's watch the entire show before casting stones....

 

[Shrek]

Its subtle but if you notice, Roger Cohen is telling the truth. No one is forcing you to work for Colgan. Another words, why would a company change their ways when people still show up for work? No one is forcing you to commute in the back of cargo planes. Average pay for a regional pilot is not 1200 dollars per month. Safety is the number one priority. Im not saying all of the above are OK but it is what it is. Roger Cohen is speaking on behalf of the company, what do you guys expect?

Another fine quote from one of GoJet's finest aviators. uke:

 

[CopilotDoug]

Tell us.... how was ALPA supposed to have stopped this from ever happening...

Not supporting Ted Kennedy.

in addition, lets deal in the here and now.... how is ALPA ( and only ALPA? or can the APA and RAH pilots be a part of the solution? What about the Skywest and jB pilots... can they help too? Or is ALPA responsible for everyone?)

How is ALPA supposed to fix this...

You can't now. The genie is out of the bottle. ALPA is worthless at this point.