Pilots are dumb

[DC4boy]

The original poster is dead on. The career is a joke. Most like me figure that out too late.[/



Don't lump all of aviation into the airline career. I make six figures in five months, never see the same thing twice, and never spend more than a handful of nights away from home....oh, and union protection

Pretty good career if you ask me

 

[Phrogs4ever]

The original poster is dead on. The career is a joke. Most like me figure that out too late.[/



Don't lump all of aviation into the airline career. I make six figures in five months, never see the same thing twice, and never spend more than a handful of nights away from home....oh, and union protection

Pretty good career if you ask me

You may have a pretty good JOB, but the career as a whole is still less than desireable.

 

[crj567]

Good for you, but that still takes good fortune for it to work out that way and only a small number can really make that work. For this to happen, the airline has to be overstaffed, not be furloughing, and be willing to dish out leaves. Plus running a small business whether real estate, broker, franchise, or other is no guarantee. $70K a month is $840K a year. You could afford to own multiple GA airplanes so I'm not sure why you'd even bother.

Absolutely correct. This guy is completely full of crap-if he was pulling in 70k per month, he would not waste his time driving a flying dump truck all over the country. Anyone with that kind of coin would be absolutely crazy to fly professionally for a living. This job involves a lot of flying when you would rather not-owning your owwn private plane means that you would get to choose whn you fly for fun.

The original poster has very good point: Why the hell would any civilian get into this field today? Spending more money than law school or about the same as medical school for a job that pays 20k per year with very poor expectations of advancement in the near future is just nutty!

 

[Wesb737fo]

I made 125k this year as a 320 FO and I am barely getting by...

Watch David Ramsey on Fox Business News on Sat mornings, he'll help you change that.

sorry for the thread hijack......

Dave Ramsey is the man. Jan 10 will be the day I pay off the last of my 15K in credit card debt. Already paid off the car. It's pretty simple. Don't spend more than you make.

.....now back to the ranting........

 

[Nindiri]

How do people justify spending almost six-figures on training for a job that pays minimum wage? Last time I checked the clerk at 7-11 did not pay $75k to train for his job(he is too smart to do that).

You paid 75K to get your ratings? Wow. No wonder you're pissed.

 

[CrewDawg]

Spot on analysis!

How, ever did my parents manage to raise three kids, and get them all through college...on only ~60k/year combined income!

2 on the Dave Ramsey comments. I admit he is not the end all, be all of finance, but his program provides a good stable foundation.

 

[waveflyer]

125k isn't really much if you're raising a family especially someplace expensive like on the east coast. First of all, you've got to max our your 401k and your IRA because your pension was robbed from you. That knocks the 125k down to 105k. Toss in health insurance union dues and we're down to 100k before taxes.

Now taxes will probably eat up at least 20k of your 100k so now you're down to 80k. So we went from 125k to 80k without even spending a dime. A mortgage on the east coast could easily cost you 30k a year, now we're down to 50k. Two car payments+insurance now we're down to 40k. Food for a family of four, 12k a year now we're at 28k. Heating/cooling/water etc bills 5k, we're down to 23k.

You throw in some private schools or savings for the kids college funds and that 125k is all but spent minus some spare change for incidentals.

With the right mindset, it doesn't sound so bad- a good life, if you're saving.

HOW we spend our money is each of our's business: We ought to get paid this and greater b/c we do things and take on responsibilities that most men would not-- at ANY salary. We are higher trained and smarter and have to think on our feet more than any accountant/mba and yet many of them outpace us financially- It is crap- As an industry- we need to get our act together and unify.

As an individual- Chris Berman say's "C'mon Man(!)" It doesn't sound like you're struggling- But if you are- get it in line and get the stress out of your home. That hurts the whole family. Kids can handle public school and a smaller house and car, much easier than stress and tension over money. Your spending issues dont only hurt you- but all of your peers as well- all of us- I won't dissect it- but the rat race spending path is the easiest way to ending up bitter, stressed, and with a broken home/ self-fulfilled prophecy child support/alimony payment. Then, when it's time to strike or sellout more RJ's for a biscuit- you're the one pissed about the scenario- but voting against our long term goals--- de-unifying the group.

And for what? Rat race materialism. Afford things in the correct order. Keep your paid off car an extra 5 years, then pay cash for a 2-3 year old one. etc etc- that's your business- but to be barely making it @ $125k is all on you, brother
I'm buzzed and a little loopy so I'll let the PearlJam front man sing it for you~~~~

"It's a mystery to me...
We have agreed, with which we have agreed
You think you have to want more than you need
until you have it all, you won't be free
~~~~
Society--- your crazy breed
I hope you're not lonely, without me
~~
WHEN YOU WANT MORE THAN YOU HAVE,
YOU THINK YOU NEED
And when you think more than you want
your thoughts begin to bleed
I think i need to find a bigger place
'cause when you have more than you think,
you need more space...."
~Eddie Vedder

Merry Christmas- remember this holiday that it's not what you get that makes you happy, it's what you give.... implying you have to have something to give... Think about what your life is giving the world. It's better to be grateful for what you have, then wanting what you dont. Selfishness is never satiated.
G'night

 

[Kalifornia]

You paid 75K to get your ratings? Wow. No wonder you're pissed.

You display a prime example of a problem among the professional pilot ranks. Lots of pilots out of touch with what else is going on in the industry beyond their own little bubble. To bring you up to speed, because of fuel costs, insurance costs, shiny GA airplane syndrome, shiny GA facility overhead costs syndrome, and consolidated greed, most flight training programs are beyond 75K these days with the collegiate aviation programs in excess of 100 grand and that goes well beyond just UND and Embry Riddle. Keep that in mind, next time you think first year wages are unimportant or when some googly eyed kid asks you if being a professional pilot is the grandest career.

 

[BRA]

125k isn't really much if you're raising a family especially someplace expensive like on the east coast. First of all, you've got to max our your 401k and your IRA because your pension was robbed from you. That knocks the 125k down to 105k. Toss in health insurance union dues and we're down to 100k before taxes.

Now taxes will probably eat up at least 20k of your 100k so now you're down to 80k. So we went from 125k to 80k without even spending a dime. A mortgage on the east coast could easily cost you 30k a year, now we're down to 50k. Two car payments+insurance now we're down to 40k. Food for a family of four, 12k a year now we're at 28k. Heating/cooling/water etc bills 5k, we're down to 23k.

You throw in some private schools or savings for the kids college funds and that 125k is all but spent minus some spare change for incidentals.

I have to lean towards what this poster wrote. You do have a lot of options making that income and the devil is in the details. Does the wife work? What is the retirement situation? This person probably needs to put away $15,000 per year or more depending on age and what they already have in the account. I have seen recent articles that suggest one will need as much as 125% of their current income in retirement. (health care is pricey) You have to drive something and you have to insure it. You have to avoid risk by putting the correct amount of insurance on the vehicle. You have to pay for uninsured motorist coverage and things of that nature so that the drunks/idiots don't screw you and kill your lifestyle. When one makes only 20K per year you don't care as much about stuff like that and don't pay for it because you are in survival mode already. If the poster lives in a state like New York they are getting killed with taxes. (property, state, gasoline, sales)

I always thought about running the side business or some job on the side. I think this really depends on what kind of relationship you have with your girlfriend/spouse. I think in general working and being gone all the time simply does not work for relationships. Although some couples just have a different reality and don't care to see each other, I think these are few and far between. Most small business owners have to eat breathe and sleep it because employees will steal from you and they know it.

None of us will ever know what the retirement balances are of our peers, old high school classmates and college classmates. I think if we did we would find the information very scary and realize that the ones that saved will be the ones paying for the ones that didn't later in life.

 

[Nindiri]

You display a prime example of a problem among the professional pilot ranks. Lots of pilots out of touch with what else is going on in the industry beyond their own little bubble. To bring you up to speed, because of fuel costs, insurance costs, shiny GA airplane syndrome, shiny GA facility overhead costs syndrome, and consolidated greed, most flight training programs are beyond 75K these days with the collegiate aviation programs in excess of 100 grand and that goes well beyond just UND and Embry Riddle. Keep that in mind, next time you think first year wages are unimportant or when some googly eyed kid asks you if being a professional pilot is the grandest career.

:laugh: Okay, sure Kalifornia. What did you do, pay Embry Riddle 100K for ratings and then find out that everyone else was doing it for less than half that price at other places? I'd be mad too if I had wasted 100K like that. :nuts:

 

[waveflyer]

I did it for $40k- for a lot more time than they get today.
And a 172 was $41/hr wet at the local fbo-

I think his point is that you can't do it that cheap anywhere anymore

 

[Colonel Savage]

David Ramsey was on this morning saying how "stupid and dumb" it was for someone who wanted to get a loan and spend 80K+ on a degree to become a social worker at 22K/year. I guess his opinion of the subject of this thread would be easy to figure out.

 

[Kalifornia]

:laugh: Okay, sure Kalifornia. What did you do, pay Embry Riddle 100K for ratings and then find out that everyone else was doing it for less than half that price at other places? I'd be mad too if I had wasted 100K like that. :nuts:

Yea nimrod, you got me pegged (sarcasm). I have no problem joining you in bashing Embry Riddle, but didn't go there myself and as Waveflyer mentions, I also began flight training at around $40 an hour at an old time FBO and after college wound up with about $35 grand in flight training loans. Kinda sucked even at that amount to start at $19 an hour at the "regionals", but fast forward to today's reality and I invite you to call up an FBO and ask them what the going rate is for airplane rental and flight instruction. I dare you to find a place that will get you from zero time to Commercial AMEL for less than roughly 75 grand. Tack on CFI, CFII, MEI and for 75 grand is definitely the floor without some out of the ordinary gift connection. Most of the university programs out of liability concerns by having the best of technology or to try and match the shiny Cessna syndrome of the likes of Embry Riddle are running over 100 grand for the full enchilada. The whole point is you are not alone, but one of a majority of pilots who are out of touch.

On that same out of touch note, I've personally witnessed recently a Delta Northwest pilot ask a Pinnacle pilot what airplane he flew. Just one example of infinite. How are the legacy pilots going to ever adequately address scope if their head is that far in the sand and put a stop to the race to the bottom? I sure hope people are well aware now and spreading the word about what a plague Republic is becoming.

 

[EBE]

Jesus Christ.......Is it too early to start drinking?

 

[Nindiri]

I did it for $40k- for a lot more time than they get today.
And a 172 was $41/hr wet at the local fbo-

I think his point is that you can't do it that cheap anywhere anymore

Kalifornia obviously paid way too much and is bitter about it now, but sure, you can do it that cheap now if you're willing to put a little effort into it instead of expecting it to fall in your lap. A quick look at one of the advertizers here, ATP, shows them offering a package deal taking you from zero time to Commercial, CFI, CFII, MEI, and 165 hours multi for less than 50K. And you can cut it down even cheaper by doing most of it at an FBO flight school.

 

[Nindiri]

I dare you to find a place that will get you from zero time to Commercial AMEL for less than roughly 75 grand. Tack on CFI, CFII, MEI and for 75 grand is definitely the floor without some out of the ordinary gift connection.

http://www.atpflightschool.com/airline_training_programs/airline_career_pilot_program/private.html


Well, that was easy. Took me all of ten seconds to click on an ad at the top of the page.

 

[RobCat]

You paid 75K to get your ratings? Wow. No wonder you're pissed.

Did he pay $75Gs for his ratings or $75Gs for an education that happen to come with wings? There is a difference.

 

[waveflyer]

ATP at $50k + college degree= ??

Have you seen how much college has increased in te last 10 years?
I bet that's how parents making $60k put kids through college- it was a tenth of the cost(!) UC's are going up 19% this year- and 15% next or are you going to say you don't need a degree -

a social worker career is still better than mcdonald's-
think education is expensive - try ignorance- remember- it's not only about dollars- educated people tend to be MUCH more responsible-
the point is still not great as even an average job at A regional will net you six figures -

 

[Propsync]

Have you seen how much college has increased in te last 10 years?

Yeah. I got out of a 4 year out of state private school with two degrees and 300 hours for 7k just over ten years ago. I worked hard to keep it cheap, but there's no way I could repeat history. I'd be in business. With not even a solo to my name.

 

[lowtimedriver]

The original poster is dead on. The career is a joke. Most like me figure that out too late.

Go fly a desk for a few years and then get back to me.