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Go to ATI or stay at the regionals?

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I think you know the answer to that question. Granted, you'll be flying steam gages again however you'll probably see more light at the end of the tunnel at ATI. Plus it's a change of venue, something new to wrap your head around.
Good Luck in whichever you chose.
 
N813CA said:
Got to ATI or stay at a regional after 9 years as an FO an no upgrade anytime soon?
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Were you offered the 11/30 class? I really hope you gave it a lot of thought already whether leaving Comair would be best for you. So you've been there 7 years and I see you flew the Dash for 2 years before that. (I'm guessing Piedmont??) So out of your 8000 hours, you are probably at 2000 PIC tops?

You may want to factor in some what-ifs into your thought process. If you go to ATI, more than likely you won't be a Captain for a long, long time. Lets say something happens with ATI and you are out of a job. You may find yourself at a huge disadvantage because you haven't been PIC on anything in 10-15 years. I've seen it before (hell its happened to me)

On the upside, if all goes well at ATI...you will be very happy.


Best of luck..I've heard nothing but good things about the people at ATI. But then again, ATA had a bunch of wonderful people, too!
 
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Go to ATI dude. You'll get to fly a real airplane, keep your stick and rudder skills sharp and earn more money than you'll ever make at the commuters. Most of all, you'll have FUN.
More than likely the 767 will replace the 8's when they finally park them (nobody knows when). They do fly a little passenger work, but mostly cargo.
You're stress level will be cut in half when you stop flying passengers. Remember that!! Good luck in whatever you choose to do.
 
From a guy who is basically doing the same sort of flying as ATI, but in the PAX business. I highly recommend going there. I don't know much about the company, but the stuff you will learn flying worldwide will put your resume at the top when hiring starts back up.
 
Go to ATI and don't look back! You might be on the DC-8 for a bit, but they are going away soon, and its glass after that. You'll see the world, get some realy good experience, have a lot of fun; Or, you can stay at wherever and go back and forth to cleveland, then to harrisburg, then back to cleveland, ad nausuem
 
nitefr8dog said:
iF you have already been offered a job go to ATI, if not you will now be behind the furloughed ABX pilots per the new contract and SL.
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Can you explain this one?
 
ERfly said:
Can you explain this one?
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Go to ATI... the Regionals suck!!! I did 8 years at one and was a Capt and leaving was a no brainer!!
 
spitfire1500 said:
Go to ATI... the Regionals suck!!! I did 8 years at one and was a Capt and leaving was a no brainer!!
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No, I got that part! I totally understand that and would love to go to ATI. I just didn't understand the ABX comment. I'm patiently waiting for the window to reopen.
 
ERfly said:
No, I got that part! I totally understand that and would love to go to ATI. I just didn't understand the ABX comment. I'm patiently waiting for the window to reopen.
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ABX signed a LOA with mgt that said something to the effect of: if another ATSG subsidiary starts hiring...the furloughed ABX pilots would be offered jobs ahead of any new hire.

I don't know how you enforce the LOA, though. ATI is a separate entity from ABX. Kind of like when Matlin-Patterson bought ATA, World, North American. ATA couldn't tell World or NA they had to hire the ATA pilots. Its a very similar situation.
 
N813CA said:
Got to ATI or stay at a regional after 9 years as an FO an no upgrade anytime soon?
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Bail for ATI, who knows what the plans are for Comair. Dont look back either cause DAL already announced more RJ's will be cut and most agree where alot of the cuts will come from.
 
Having been both a 10 year regional pilot (Piedmont ) and a former ATI pilot at one time ,2 things you have to ask yourself when formulating your decision as to whether ATI or any of the ACMI carriers for that matter are a good fit for you.

First and the most important is are you married with kids at home and if so what type of schedule works better for you and your family ? The reason why is ATI and other ACMI carriers usually send you out on the road for quite an extended period of time. My first trip, I was told to pack for 10 days, hub turns out of TOL, all back of the clock flying. 16 very long days or should I say nights ,later; I come walking back through my kitchen door at home. This was quite the eye-opener for all of us when you consider the longest trip I've ever done up to this point in my career were 4 day trips and was what we were all used to at home. Bottom line, this kind of schedule can be pretty tough on the homelife especially when you have a wife and 2 young children as was my case at the time.


The second thing to consider is how close you will be to upgrading staying at Comair vs. going to ATI . If your a very senior F/O at Comair and the reason your stuck in the right seat at Comair is because of the age 65 change,will you upgrade quicker by staying put and waiting for the retirements to start again or will you upgrade quicker by starting over at ATI ? I was told at an interview many years ago , "'you can't put a price on that PIC time " If your young junior and single,then I guess the decision to go is that much easier. For us old goats further up the totem pole with a fairly decent QOL, not so much. Anyway ,these are some thoughts on the subject and some things to consider from someone who has done both. Hope this helps. Good luck in your decision.

PHXFLYR:cool:
 
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pilotgolfer said:
ABX signed a LOA with mgt that said something to the effect of: if another ATSG subsidiary starts hiring...the furloughed ABX pilots would be offered jobs ahead of any new hire.

I don't know how you enforce the LOA, though. ATI is a separate entity from ABX. Kind of like when Matlin-Patterson bought ATA, World, North American. ATA couldn't tell World or NA they had to hire the ATA pilots. Its a very similar situation.
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Actually, unless the labor contracts at ATI and Capitol say that their management cannot hire pilots furloughed from other airlines... and the unions are in charge of interviewing and hiring pilots the management can hire whomever they want. And here is the real kicker Joe Hete is the head of your management weather you like it or not!
 
nitefr8dog said:
Actually, unless the labor contracts at ATI and Capitol say that their management cannot hire pilots furloughed from other airlines... and the unions are in charge of interviewing and hiring pilots the management can hire whomever they want. And here is the real kicker Joe Hete is the head of your management weather you like it or not!
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I don't work there. I'm just an outsider looking in.
 
Wow. Thank you for all your advice. Some very good points both ways. I was senior at one point at Comair. Had an upgrade class and then the floor fell under and I am now on reserve again in CVG as an FO with less than 300 pilots below me. At one point had 800 pilots below me. As far as PIC time I have zero turbine PIC and less than 1,000 PIC an anything. I just got stuck as a 9 year FO making tons of SIC time.
 
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N813CA said:
Wow. Thank you for all your advice. Some very good points both ways. I was senior at one point at Comair. Had an upgrade class and then the floor fell under and I am now on reserve again in CVG as an FO with less than 300 pilots below me. At one point had 800 pilots below me. As far as PIC time I have zero turbine PIC and less than 1,000 PIC an anything. I just got stuck as a 9 year FO making tons of SIC time.
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Have you been hired yet...or do you have an interview coming up?
 
As PHXFLYR said, think long and hard about leaving Comair for ATI if you have a wife and especially if you have kids at home. I left a regional for one of ATI's competitors, and yes the paycheck's a lot better and it's fun to see the world, but I still have not gotten used to being gone for 15 days or more at a time. I don't know if you're a family man or not, if you are the schedule at ATI could be a HUGE negative.

Anyways, good luck to you in making your decision.
 
What are your career goals? That would be my first question. You are obviously not happy at Comair. Were you happy before the economy tanked? Are you just bored?
 
CRJ Pilot said:
As PHXFLYR said, think long and hard about leaving Comair for ATI if you have a wife and especially if you have kids at home. I left a regional for one of ATI's competitors, and yes the paycheck's a lot better and it's fun to see the world, but I still have not gotten used to being gone for 15 days or more at a time. I don't know if you're a family man or not, if you are the schedule at ATI could be a HUGE negative.

Anyways, good luck to you in making your decision.
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I have a different opinion. I fly for an airline with a schedule similar to that of ATI. IMO, the best schedule is the 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off (give or take a day or two since the months are not all 30 days).
For example, my father flew for the airlines, and while growing up, I can remember he was always walking out the door to fly. 3-4 day trips all the time. At least when you're home for 2 weeks, you can get on your kids schedule, and be able to take them to school and pick them up and be home to tuck them into bed. You're home at least two entire weekends a month. Planning events is easy. You can get large projects done at home. I only go to work literally 12 times a year. I sell my vacation days back to the company for $ because I have a 2 week or more "vacation" every month. Remember, wherever you are for the weekends, you can usually jumpseat home on Friday mornings and jumpseat back out to your weekend layover city on Monday morning. Many times, I've only been out 8 or 9 days a month.
It works for me and my family. I would go nuts knowing that I had the remaining 20 years of my flying career having to go to work every 3-4 days.
 
I agree. I went from week on/week off at a freight company to the airlines where it was either 3/4 on then the opposite off. I'm now back to where I can do 1 or 2 week trips. Much better schedule especially if you're a commuter. To each their own.
 
I am/was happy at Comair. A year a go I was going to upgrade to captain and make a living. Now I am on the bottom and on reserve as an FO with 400 pilots on the street. I do have a family. I have an almost 4 month old at home. I have an interview coming up. I haven't been offered a job. I just don't want to burn any bridges if I were to turn down a job (If I was offered one). I really wanted your opinon and I have learned a lot from what you have told me.
 
My friend stay at Comair. You will make captain faster than ATI, which is not that cool anyway. Look at their history. It seems they always furlough in spring and you don't want that. A high tech aircraft when airlines will start hiring sounds much better than a DC-8. It might be a cool aircraft but still, it is an antique. In 2-3 years things gets better, maybe you will get some captain time - much faster at comair than ati- and being young you will get that dream job at a major. Plus you know anybody at Comair, you are familiar with schedule, maybe you get the chedule you want. At ATI you run into old, fat full of DC-8 crap Captains which will give you even more crap. You will be a FNG, nobody gives a darn about, for a long period time. Maybe for ever. I have a feeling all the captains at ATI have at least 10-15 years with the company and maybe many FOs have as much too. Maybe they have some new FOs for 1-2 years but that must be pretty much all of the new guys. If you have a job hold on it. The same way you have been living for the last 9 years, you could make an extra effort and wait for another 2-3 years and make a better chiuce for many years to come. You have time to wait. ATI is much more of a seasonal job. You don't need more FO time in bigger and older equipment. You need captain time. Good luck
 
countbat said:
At ATI you run into old, fat full of DC-8 crap Captains which will give you even more crap. You will be a FNG, nobody gives a darn about, for a long period time.
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Wow. Which one of us old, fat full of DC-8 crap Captains took a dump in your corn flakes? You remind me of a Libertarian candidate who sounds great right up the day before election when he lays out some stink bomb of asinine paranoid rhetoric which reveals his true colors. And with the exception of a few self serving FNG induhviduals, we care greatly about our NGs (notice the lack of an "F" in front of that). Plus, it's very likely you'll be either assigned or offered a 767 seat. So much for cool, but dated equipment. Everything else you said is reasonable, including your assessment of our seniority in seat. So WTF?

N813CA, you've got a tough choice ahead, and perhaps the worst part of it (at least for me it would be) is going into an interview uncertain that you want the job given that you have one that you like. "What if I get it?" Seniority and longevity go a long way in this industry as you well know. Our furlough history has very little or nothing to do with season. It has to do with business, or lack thereof. We've had promising contracts that fell through after hiring was done. We've had a massive drop in the past 10 years of military work. That's typical of a Republican power structure. Conversely, we've seen more military work in the last year under our current rule, such as it is. That statement is contrary to my personal political convictions, but it's the way it is in this segment of the industry. Right now, there are so many interdependent conditions and variables governing our future. A move here would be a crap shoot that pays off hugely in a few years, or it could be a bust. My advice would be go to the interview. If you're turned down, your decision is made for you. If you are offered a job, more info may be available to you to call the shot. Good luck!
 
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Leave Comair.

The pro's:

  1. international heavy time: the only jobs out there right now are for guys with int'l heavy experience which you won't get at Comair. Plus the experience of being all over the world, you will never want for another "tell me about a time when..." story.
  2. you are advancing your career: Comair is a decent place to work (at least it was when I was there '96-2000) and the CRJ is a great plane, but the 767 and even the DC-8 will make you a better (read more employable) then the CRJ
  3. the current stagnation at the regionals has made an ever deepening pool of very qualified crj and erj drivers. when the hiring boom starts again, you will basically be at the back of the line with no pic time against guys with thousands of hours of jet pic. this after all the guys on furlough with heavy jet and pic time get their jobs.
The cons:

  • the schedules: look at it this way...you will be gone for half of your kids life/marriage/free time. As a father of 3 (all girls, yeah I know...) I can tell you that flying is great but it is family that you should be working for. This is so different from person to person, but you probably have no idea how hard it is to be gone from your family for 2-3 weeks or more at a time.
  • you will be in the ACMI world. do your homework and look closely at the companies that make up this segment. I am a student of history and if you look back over the course of this industry, you will see some trends and patterns that can lead to some crappy consequences for the employees. All I can say is "Caveat emptor".
  • you will be working for the ATSG "family" of companies. Do your homework and see what this means.
This is all based on my experience over the last 18 years. I am now permanently out of aviation as a career and have bought in as a partner in a (hopefully) successful business. Good luck! You probably will not know you made the right or wrong decision for a very long time.
 
hawkerjet said:
I think you know the answer to that question. Granted, you'll be flying steam gages again however you'll probably see more light at the end of the tunnel at ATI. Plus it's a change of venue, something new to wrap your head around.
Good Luck in whichever you chose.
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GittinFatter said:
Go to ATI and don't look back! You might be on the DC-8 for a bit, but they are going away soon, and its glass after that. You'll see the world, get some realy good experience, have a lot of fun; Or, you can stay at wherever and go back and forth to cleveland, then to harrisburg, then back to cleveland, ad nausuem
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Both you act like that flying steam gauges is a negative factor. If it comes down to glass vs steam, I'd much rather fly a steamship DC-8 than a latest technology soulless RJ any day. There's nothing wrong with steam gauges! Modern pilots these days!:cool:
 
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