DCI - 100, 50-Seaters and All Turboprops To Go.

[Raskal]

Yea us and Comair are surely in for the worst of it the next few years.....
As for my original question I guess it's is there any way/plan for Delta to quit using the E120 in the Delta system? The EAS contracts I don't think last any longer than 2011. EAS doesn't give out long term contracts, just a few years at a time. When those are up will Delta pull the same crap and turn in uncompetitive/inelligible bids to have an excuse to end the Bro like they have done with many of the Saab cities.

I really don't know, one would think that getting rid of 50 seaters AND tprops at the same time is strange. Is Delta going to abandon every market that can't fill at least 70 seats daily? Seems like a very large and capable airline leavng an awful lot on the table...but what do I know, maybe small markets are losers these days.

We'll see next year...

 

[wmuflyguy]

Yea us and Comair are surely in for the worst of it the next few years.....
As for my original question I guess it's is there any way/plan for Delta to quit using the E120 in the Delta system? The EAS contracts I don't think last any longer than 2011. EAS doesn't give out long term contracts, just a few years at a time. When those are up will Delta pull the same crap and turn in uncompetitive/inelligible bids to have an excuse to end the Bro like they have done with many of the Saab cities.

Chances are DL doesn't have much of a say. They (DL) don't own SkyWest, so SkyWest is free to bid on the EAS (or not). The bid comes from SkyWest and not Delta. They may be operated on a pro-rate agreement as opposed to the fee for departure that most regional flights for DL are operated under.

 

[flap operator]

They're not going to get rid of all the 50 seaters. Even after the 100 they want to ditch in the next few years, there will still be plenty more to go to the markets that can sustain a 50 seat a/c. Flown on the right segments (ie: <750 miles) to the right markets, they make sense.

Mesaba and Pinnacle operate the NEWEST CRJ200s in the DL system. They are all leased by Delta and subleased to XJ/9E. Therefore those are likely the last ones to leave the party... in other words, whenever their long term leases are due, which is well past the next 3 years.

The bottom line is that DL is going to get out of a lot of the 50 seat flying in the next 3 years in the following ways:

1 - exit the cost + agreements that come due (Freedom and Chautauqua.)
2 - exit leases as they come due (Comair)
3 - park planes they own (Comair)

The fact is that Skywest/Asa/Pinnacle are locked into long term agreements, therefore their flying isn't going to get cut. Freedom and Chautauqua have agreements coming due soon. Comair and Mesaba are the wholly owned whipping kids. Only Mesaba's 200s are leased, not owned. You do the math. Unfortunately I think this means more of Comairs old 200s getting parked and the eventual reshuffling of the DL owned RJ fleet.

Anybody know the breakdown of Comairs leased and owned planes? Does DL own/lease any of the Skywest/ASA 200 fleet?

 

[Seaknight1]

They're not going to get rid of all the 50 seaters. Even after the 100 they want to ditch in the next few years, there will still be plenty more to go to the markets that can sustain a 50 seat a/c. Flown on the right segments (ie: <750 miles) to the right markets, they make sense.

Mesaba and Pinnacle operate the NEWEST CRJ200s in the DL system. They are all leased by Delta and subleased to XJ/9E. Therefore those are likely the last ones to leave the party... in other words, whenever their long term leases are due, which is well past the next 3 years.

The bottom line is that DL is going to get out of a lot of the 50 seat flying in the next 3 years in the following ways:

1 - exit the cost + agreements that come due (Freedom and Chautauqua.)
2 - exit leases as they come due (Comair)
3 - park planes they own (Comair)

The fact is that Skywest/Asa/Pinnacle are locked into long term agreements, therefore their flying isn't going to get cut. Freedom and Chautauqua have agreements coming due soon. Comair and Mesaba are the wholly owned whipping kids. Only Mesaba's 200s are leased, not owned. You do the math. Unfortunately I think this means more of Comairs old 200s getting parked and the eventual reshuffling of the DL owned RJ fleet.

Anybody know the breakdown of Comairs leased and owned planes? Does DL own/lease any of the Skywest/ASA 200 fleet?

Be careful when you talk about newer aircraft. It all depends on what the final terms were negotiated while DL/NWA were in bankruptcy. We've had several newr CRJ's go back to Bombardier since the leases were renegotiated on a shorter term limits. The only aircraft that Comair owns that have been parked(not lease returns) were a couple that have reached or close to reaching their airframe life limit of 40,000 hrs. Comair pays the leases on all 13 CRJ-900s, 15 CRJ-00's. I'll have to find my notes to figure out the ratio on the CRJ-200's. We've been told that we should expect to have 80-85 airframes when all the cuts are completed.

 

[johnsonrod]

Great, now his kids are on here !! The only thing he is on top of is RA. He wants all of us to be unemployed. And you want ME to tone it down. You must be kidding I would hope. Someone wants my wife and kids to suffer for years and you want me to tone it down!!! F@ck you!!!

You are a miserable person. I don't think he wants you unemployed, rather he wants less regional jets and more mainline jets. I actually want that too, so I can leave my regional and try to support my family better. Face it, life here at the regional level isn't going to get any better. You need to start thinking the same way he does, just not as crass. You are a short term thinker, instead of a long term one. Reverse that, and tone it down too.

 

[hockeypilot44]

The private is NOT on top of Delta issues! He simply trolls here to spout off negatively against all regional pilots, whom he feels are inferior to him. He feels self-important by trying to appear superior to you. This is why he trolls the regional board instead of just discussing issues on the majors board. He also feels it necessary to blame rj's and rj pilots for all of the woes of the airline industry. He obviously has issues in his life, and I'm certain was that kid that was picked on in the school yard, so now he can be a bully behind his keyboard to compensate. If his goal was to simply discuss Delta issues he would not so consistently trash regional pilots and treat them like third-rate little children.

And Private, don't feel the urge now to rebut my post with a list of your hobbies and tell us how hot your wife (cough cough) is, or how great your last overnight in Germany was. I don't believe it and I don't care. Anyone that tries so hard to defend themselves has more issues than originally though.

Keep on trollin'!!!!!

The general feels he is worth more than regional pilots. He may or may not be, but the fact of the matter is, he makes more than twice as much money as most regional captains as a mainline first officer. I want to see the regionals go away also. I don't blame most regional pilots for the state of the industry, but there has never been any regional refuse to fly any type of aircraft. The Republic pilots are extremely excited to get as many 190's as possible even though the pay is the same as the E175's. They were excited to get 170's even though the pay is $3 more an hour for captains and the same f/o pay as the fifty seaters. Skywest pilots were excited to get CRJ700's that paid exactly the same as CRJ200's. ALPA and mainline are to blame also, but bankruptcy made it a lot worse than it had to be. I hate the articles by people talking about how mainline scope is holding airlines back, but these articles never mention that the airline can fly as many small aircraft as it wants at mainline. I have made the jump to mainline and I would like to see as many of my fellow pilots as possible do the same thing. Unfortunately, I think very few will be given the opportunity.

 

[enuffalready]

The general feels he is worth more than regional pilots. He may or may not be, but the fact of the matter is, he makes more than twice as much money as most regional captains as a mainline first officer.

I want to see the regionals go away also.

I have made the jump to mainline and I would like to see as many of my fellow pilots as possible do the same thing. Unfortunately, I think very few will be given the opportunity.

see quot

You and/or he can feel all you want, but regionals are not going away. To think otherwise is naive at best. Even though you were not there, your mainline brothers created(again) the B and C scale. There are those of us that have chosen to stay at the lowly regional and because of that choice have created other income streams to make more than your delta widebody captains, ( you wanted to point out the importance of genital make more than double of us regional guys), so why again do i want to go to Delta and fly 88's into little rock, take a pay cut and be gone 80% of my life? Not everyone wants to make that jump


Always laugh when Delta guys get all snippy when a regional guy sticks up for himself/job/etc and that we have the stones to think that life outside a Delta 76 to Rome could actually be pretty good.

 

[JumpersAway]

The general feels he is worth more than regional pilots. He may or may not be, but the fact of the matter is, he makes more than twice as much money as most regional captains as a mainline first officer. I want to see the regionals go away also. I don't blame most regional pilots for the state of the industry, but there has never been any regional refuse to fly any type of aircraft. The Republic pilots are extremely excited to get as many 190's as possible even though the pay is the same as the E175's. They were excited to get 170's even though the pay is $3 more an hour for captains and the same f/o pay as the fifty seaters. Skywest pilots were excited to get CRJ700's that paid exactly the same as CRJ200's. ALPA and mainline are to blame also, but bankruptcy made it a lot worse than it had to be. I hate the articles by people talking about how mainline scope is holding airlines back, but these articles never mention that the airline can fly as many small aircraft as it wants at mainline. I have made the jump to mainline and I would like to see as many of my fellow pilots as possible do the same thing. Unfortunately, I think very few will be given the opportunity.

He's not getting paid much more than a regional captain, but he won't own up to it, nor will he admitt it. The proof is in the pudding- look around ASA and see how many pilots we have that harbor no desire to move on. The juice simply isn't worth the squeeze anymore to move on, for many. The initial pay cut, QOL loss, and wage losses earn up to over 12 years (usually) for our Captains (10+ years seniority) to recoupe their losses and get back to where they are currently. That's a lot of the reason Delta was hiring many of our First Officers that had 0 PIC time- the pickings were getting slim.

As far as the regionals making money off of a "Sick Delta", you speak as though it's a healthy Delta. My argument is that until wages, at every airline, are back to pre-9/11 wages, there isn't a single healthy airline. So far, Fedex, UPS, and Southwest, are the only ones that get paid what they are worth, in my opinion. So General, when you get YOUR pay up to a level commensurate with your level of contribution to Delta, keep your finger out of my face with a lecture on my compensation.

 

[B727FA]

The only airline with RJs that is doing well is Alaska.

Horizon is all Q400 again.

 

[B727FA]

Us and Quantas someone told me.

"And there they were, banging on about their perfect record...tick-tock, tick-tock." --Pam Ann

 

[General Lee]

He's not getting paid much more than a regional captain, but he won't own up to it, nor will he admitt it. The proof is in the pudding- look around ASA and see how many pilots we have that harbor no desire to move on. The juice simply isn't worth the squeeze anymore to move on, for many. The initial pay cut, QOL loss, and wage losses earn up to over 12 years (usually) for our Captains (10+ years seniority) to recoupe their losses and get back to where they are currently. That's a lot of the reason Delta was hiring many of our First Officers that had 0 PIC time- the pickings were getting slim.

As far as the regionals making money off of a "Sick Delta", you speak as though it's a healthy Delta. My argument is that until wages, at every airline, are back to pre-9/11 wages, there isn't a single healthy airline. So far, Fedex, UPS, and Southwest, are the only ones that get paid what they are worth, in my opinion. So General, when you get YOUR pay up to a level commensurate with your level of contribution to Delta, keep your finger out of my face with a lecture on my compensation.

I made twice what the normal regional Captain makes last year, maybe a bit more. I flew the max, and I greenslip about once every couple months thanks to my high seniority on the 767ER. As far as pre-BK wages, sure, I made more then. I was making more then compared to what most current 767 Captains make now. And, when you go to BK, you are NOT paid what you are worth, you are paid whatever the judge decides. You should know that you dimwit. We are working on higher pay, but again when mitigating circumstances halt your progress (like negotiating during high oil--$140 a barrel), there is not much anyone can do. Also, having a higher pay rate doesn't always equate to having what you are worth. A high DC percentage, better work rules, etc can also make up for lost pay per hour. We didn't lose everything in BK you know. Oh wait, I guess you don't know, since a lot of what you said made you look clueless. You really do need a lecture.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Horizon is all Q400 again.

I am pretty sure they have CRJ-700s too. You may want to take that back.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[B727FA]

The only aircraft that Comair owns that have been parked(not lease returns) were a couple that have reached or close to reaching their airframe life limit of 40,000 hrs.

I'll bet that includes 7011? Haven't seen her around much anymore.

 

[B727FA]

And, when you go to BK, you are NOT paid what you are worth, you are paid whatever the judge decides.

Nobody, in any industry is EVER paid what they're worth; they're paid what they negotiate.

 

[General Lee]

Nobody, in any industry is EVER paid what they're worth; they're paid what they negotiate.

That is NOT correct when it comes to BK. You will LOSE everytime against a judge. And, you still haven't responded to your All Q-400 remark for Horizon. That is incredibly wrong, and your own credibility is suspect for sure.

Bye Bye--General Lee