Flexjet Pilots About To Draw A Line In The Sand!!!

[flex*wife]

The fact that anyone here would believe you are actually a wife rather than one of our pilots is a joke.

And there you have it... Please, enlighten me, why could I not possibly be who I say I am? I still don't know whether to feel insulted, baffled or complimented..

All I can say is that I can guarantee you who I am and why I'm here are as transaparent as anyone else here on this board but I guess that's not saying much. Outside of jeopardizing my husbands job, I have no real way to prove it, so we will have to agree to disagree I suppose.

And out of everything, that's the part that really sucks. The idea (and history has proven it to be fact) that speaking out at flex or God forbid to be in favor of a union puts your job in jeopardy.

 

[netjetwife]

FW, it's wrong but not surprising that speaking up and/or being pro-union is sometimes hazardous for frac pilots--job wise. To me what is shocking and saddening is the ugly backlash sometimes seen from pilots. As a matter of basic fairness, those affected by industry decisions (that includes all of the frac pilots and their families) should be able to participate in open, respectful discussions of events/issues that impact their lives.

The irony is that right on this page there are blatant sexist/derogatory posts trying to silence 2 female FI members merely trying to stick to the issues. An informed debate/discussion is being delayed by those trying to shut out members who have a right to participate. I have encountered this attitude (not representative of the majority, btw) since I began posting here. I have learned to skip past that type of posting and focus on the positive, informative posts one can find here. You do have to wonder, though, what they fear from a respectful discussion of the issues...:erm: As for myself, I am comfortable leaving readers to decide for themselves which posts have merit and which posters are respectful.

I am quite interested in learning more about the other frac pilotgroups--their situation and approach. I welcome an exchange of information that can help us all learn more about one another. It appears, FW, that you follow issues closely and I look forward to your input. Likewise, I've learned a lot from the respectful, informed pilots who post here and I welcome their comments.

Here's a topic I'd like to explore: CABs, PACs, etc...those pilots who represent and inform the rest of the pilot group. How are they chosen? How long do they serve? How effective are they at presenting the pilot viewpoint? How often do they report and in what format? And how does the pilotgroup, as a whole, know that they are representing the interests of the majority? What can you do if they don't?

 

[clydefastly]

Wow Clydefastly, you take me and apparantly yourself way too seriously! I guess everytime someone makes a good point I don't like but I can find one post to counteract that wisdom, I can discredit everyting they say too. Sounds to me like you are more upset about the other issues I brought up (which interestingly no one wants to debate despite their truth and relevenace to the matters at hand).

If I thought it would actually matter, I could go quote by quote here and point out to you that thru both this board and private messages, my status as a woman and nonpilot has VERY MUCH been an issue in regards to whether or not I am someone who has a right to make a point. But I've also been told my posts are long enought as it is... hahaha

If you, as you say, are truly interested in apologizing for doing me wrong, don't just take my word for it -- there is proof. Why don't you a search on my username -- I have only commented in 3 or 4 different threads so it shouldn't be too hard to go thru. Go back and read the posts by other who point blank say I can't possibly be a woman becuase my posts are too intelligent. Or other posts where I am told to get back to the kitchen. Or posts where some point out they are soooo happy their wife actually has a job, as if I am somehow less capable of being a part of the conversation just because I must be bored. Or how bout the post where the writer was all to happy I was riled up -- made it sexy for him. Or yeah the one who suggested I need to get out things from my bedside drawer as if to insinuate I must be sexualy frustrated instead of having a right to be a part of the conversation. I am not the one who made this about sexism. AT ALL.

As for NJW, well doing a search on her might take a bit more time but I can assure you that there is plenty of evidence to substantiate a claim that she is subject to dismissal of her points simply because of her sex. I guess you'll have to apologize to her too. There are posts and pms that POINT BLANK point out that women and non-pilots' opinions DON'Treally count, both to her and myself.

I'll admit that the specific post you are referring to might be a little on the crude side, but it was written out of ultimate frustration of reading more than enough posts insulting either myself or NJW in a thread that actually could have provided real discussion or solutions or at the very least information. Now maybe there is something wrong with my sense of humor but I actually thought it was quite mild and slightly funny... Sorry you took an extemely disproprtionate amount of offense to it.

As for the inevitable continuance of inappropriate or sexually offensive remarks, I lay much more on the side of freedom of speech than repression. Personally I don't need the assistance of any moderator to be my knight in shining armor. Far more impressive to read the posts of others who point out the obvious to their coworkers. I enjoy the opportunity to let people reveal their true colors and then I accordingly, after enough evidence, can make my own judgement call on whether or not theirs is a viewpoint I care to consider.

As for NJW, I think she rocks. I am beggining to think she is a glutton for punishment, but I admire her moxie. Privately, I have expressed to her that I think any effort I put in to making a difference here is futile (in part becuase of some of the sexist banter) but she has encouraged me to continue to speak up where I feel I can bring meaningful discussion.

I have tried to pratice restraint not only in what I post, how I post or how often I post. But when you feel passionatly about something that is a hard thing to do. But I do think Clydefastly after enough research you will find you do owe me an apology. It was others, not me who made this about anatomy.

That said wasn't this thread supposed to be a joke? Or is the joke on me?

Well Flexwife,
I do owe you an apology. My previous post was done so under the influence, which is no excuse, but I put it up here so I can't take it back. I should have not included you in my post to njw. My frustration is that I am one of the guys here trying to debate differences respectfully with njw, and your comment seemed to target me as one of these guys posting extremely inappropriate things about you or njw. Lets call it poor timing on both of our parts. I know that you are being wrongfully harassed by a bunch of weak tool bags that hide behind screen names. But my concern was that you were pointing a finger at my comment, when you haven't said much to those that have posted much worse.

To you and njw, I am sorry if I have offended you, that was not my intention.

Clyde Out

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks, Clyde! Your apology took guts and I respect you for it. It bodes well for a calm, informed discussion of the issues we face as a community of pilots and family members. It's possible to respectfully talk about the differences between the frac groups because we share lots of common ground. We all want what is best for pilot careers and family (existing or future) well-being. Keeping that in mind, we can share ideas and info that supports those two important goals. Regards, NJW

 

[netjetwife]

For the record, Clyde, I wasn't speaking for FW but I think she'll share my thoughts and hopes. She seems to have concerns about the lack of info the Flex pilots are getting and I hope that situation will be discussed.

 

[tomcat]

For the record, Clyde, I wasn't speaking for FW but I think she'll share my thoughts and hopes. She seems to have concerns about the lack of info the Flex pilots are getting and I hope that situation will be discussed.

Seriously, you even have to respond to your own posts?
How about a refresher for you. You can use the "Edit post" interface to add any information you might have left off of a previous post.
Now you've even woken the lurkers.

 

[notapilot]

Here's a topic I'd like to explore: CABs, PACs, etc...those pilots who represent and inform the rest of the pilot group. How are they chosen? How long do they serve? How effective are they at presenting the pilot viewpoint? How often do they report and in what format? And how does the pilotgroup, as a whole, know that they are representing the interests of the majority? What can you do if they don't?

I really don't understand why you care so much and have to comment about others workplaces. That would be like me posting all over the Southwest message board probing for insignificant details and commenting on their work conditions. I don't see that type of behavior happening in any other forum from anyone else. You are not a crewmember and you don't even work at Flexjet. While I might not agree with FW, she has every right to participate in discussions that directly affect her. These might be some reasons why you catch so much grief. Oh ya, and it is the same thing over and over from you. You really are no different than B19, except your endless chatter comes from the other side of the fence. I am sure you see it differently because you think you are right. 2,600 messages! Really?! This is what you do all day?

 

[netjetwife]

..How about a refresher for you. You can use the "Edit post" interface to add any information you might have left off of a previous post.....

Thanks, but the refresher isn't needed. I was having internet problems and inadvertently posted the previous post twice. So I chose to delete the 2nd and add an afterthought instead.

 

[harley30344]

Thanks, Clyde! Your apology took guts and I respect you for it. It bodes well for a calm, informed discussion of the issues we face as a community of pilots and family members. It's possible to respectfully talk about the differences between the frac groups because we share lots of common ground. We all want what is best for pilot careers and family (existing or future) well-being. Keeping that in mind, we can share ideas and info that supports those two important goals. Regards, NJW

I find your statement about "we all want what is best for pilot careers and family well-being" as somewhat hypocritical. You seem to want what is best as long as it serves your agenda. I have not read a single derogatory word from you on the unwanted takeover of NJI by NJA. If you truly wanted what is best for all, you would speak up on this injustice. It may have been what is best for NJA but the majority on this side still think it was not what is best for NJI. Just saying!

 

[jppt2000]

I find your statement about "we all want what is best for pilot careers and family well-being" as somewhat hypocritical. You seem to want what is best as long as it serves your agenda. I have not read a single derogatory word from you on the unwanted takeover of NJI by NJA. If you truly wanted what is best for all, you would speak up on this injustice. It may have been what is best for NJA but the majority on this side still think it was not what is best for NJI. Just saying!

Injustice?
You and Billy V. seem to forget the sign of any good seniority integration is when the greatest amount of people feel equally screwed.
You are very misinformed about this "injustice" you speak of.
No one took your career from you.
Bee Dubya has done a great job dispelling rumors and myths like this crap you just posted.
PM him, he'll set you straight.
You and I are lucky to have him working for both of us.

 

[harley30344]

Injustice?
You and Billy V. seem to forget the sign of any good seniority integration is when the greatest amount of people feel equally screwed.
You are very misinformed about this "injustice" you speak of.
No one took your career from you.
Bee Dubya has done a great job dispelling rumors and myths like this crap you just posted.
PM him, he'll set you straight.
You and I are lucky to have him working for both of us.

He gave a valiant try to "set me straight" but obviously failed. One more question: why is it always the ones at NJI that don't get it or don't understand? As another poster often says--only bad companies need unions---NJI was not a bad company--the answer as I see it is that the union felt threatened by the independence of NJI and was fearful that management would use NJI to siphon off work from NJA and thus the takeover. Since NJI pilots were still making more money than NJA pilots (on the average) why would this have happened? We were perfectly happy (majority of us)--we didn't need or want you. But you tell us it is for our own good and that it will be a good thing for us--sounds a lot like what is currently happening in the political arena. Big government or big union have to look out for those of us that for some reason can't look out for ourselves. It isn't a coincidence that those two entities are in the same boat (big gov't and big union). As I read the different threads they often turn to a political slant and the majority seem to be strong conservatives but then the same posters come out as very pro-union, it seems like such a contradiction considering what unions have stood for through the years and considering the political party they almost always side with---as njw mentioned about caring for pilots and their families---this integration will cost money and quality of life to NJI pilots by limiting the their upgrade speed and potential---if you truly cared why didn't you just leave us alone? That was all we asked--nothing more and nothing less. Why didn't you just leave us alone?

 

[Ludicris]

Wow, I thought that this was a Flexjet thread.

 

[jppt2000]

He gave a valiant try to "set me straight" but obviously failed. One more question: why is it always the ones at NJI that don't get it or don't understand? As another poster often says--only bad companies need unions---NJI was not a bad company--the answer as I see it is that the union felt threatened by the independence of NJI and was fearful that management would use NJI to siphon off work from NJA and thus the takeover. Since NJI pilots were still making more money than NJA pilots (on the average) why would this have happened? We were perfectly happy (majority of us)--we didn't need or want you. But you tell us it is for our own good and that it will be a good thing for us--sounds a lot like what is currently happening in the political arena. Big government or big union have to look out for those of us that for some reason can't look out for ourselves. It isn't a coincidence that those two entities are in the same boat (big gov't and big union). As I read the different threads they often turn to a political slant and the majority seem to be strong conservatives but then the same posters come out as very pro-union, it seems like such a contradiction considering what unions have stood for through the years and considering the political party they almost always side with---as njw mentioned about caring for pilots and their families---this integration will cost money and quality of life to NJI pilots by limiting the their upgrade speed and potential---if you truly cared why didn't you just leave us alone? That was all we asked--nothing more and nothing less. Why didn't you just leave us alone?

You again, are very misinformed.
I agree with you, that a very important part of the NJI/NJA integration initiative was scope protection.
On the other hand, you need to review your history.
There are former NJA union leaders that have reported RTS "promised" they would eventually be flying Gulfstreams over 14 years ago!
Unfortunately, both of us have been "promised" things that didn't eventually come true.
RTS agreed to the integration language, maybe you should let him know how you feel an injustice has been done to you.
Did you folks let RTS know you feel he wronged you?
What did he say?
Refer to Billy V's, posts that he didn't really know what was going on (regarding integration) at the union side of the company when he was hired.
If you didn't know there was a hot issue that needed to be resolved with a new CBA, maybe you should have waited before coming to NJI, now Netjets North America.
BTW, there are many pilots on the NJA side of the company that aren't happy with this integration too.
There is a bigger picture here, that thankfully BW and his integration coworkers comprehend, that you refuse to see because of your own greed.
Brian W. is a very fair, passionate integration subject matter expert on this, ask him to draw you a picture this time.

 

[jppt2000]

Wow, I thought that this was a Flexjet thread.

True, but Harley seems to never miss the opportunity to throw a dart at a very dedicated, pilot centered, hard working group of people.
As the "outer limits" TV show said at the close of its story, "We now return control of your TV to you."

 

[Dingo221]

I like her Boots