SWA Pilots - Don't be Pricks!

[vv100]

Wrong. They are playing their cards right. SWAPA arrogance is ridiculous.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Nevermind. TWAdude is right.

I hope it works out for everybody.

 

[TWA Dude]

My hat's off to the poster of this thread. Now's not the time for arrogance. People's jobs are at stake.

SWAPA's job is to protect their own and not the Frontier pilots so it's no surprise it's playing hardball. The problem for FAPA is they're being forced to negotiate with a gun to their head. Not the first time this has happened in this industry and it makes me sick to my stomache knowing another good bunch of pilots has to suffer through it.

It would be great if SWAPA would offer something less insulting than a staple (no matter what kind of pay raise is in store) but they hold all the leverage. I'm not so arrogant as to tell the Frontier pilots what's best for them -- only they can determine that -- but when you have no choice the choice is easy.

Regardless, I wish the best for the FAPA pilots and I wish Southwest pilots would refrain from telling them what's best for them.

 

[johnsonrod]

My hat's off to the poster of this thread. Now's not the time for arrogance. People's jobs are at stake.

SWAPA's job is to protect their own and not the Frontier pilots so it's no surprise it's playing hardball. The problem for FAPA is they're being forced to negotiate with a gun to their head. Not the first time this has happened in this industry and it makes me sick to my stomache knowing another good bunch of pilots has to suffer through it.

It would be great if SWAPA would offer something less insulting than a staple (no matter what kind of pay raise is in store) but they hold all the leverage. I'm not so arrogant as to tell the Frontier pilots what's best for them -- only they can determine that -- but when you have no choice the choice is easy.

Regardless, I wish the best for the FAPA pilots and I wish Southwest pilots would refrain from telling them what's best for them.

Very well said.

 

[shagadelic]

Touche.

But when I hear the FAPA guys are trying to negotiate things like "first rights to Denver 737 spots" FOREVER, then we get a bit defensive. There's a lot of posturing going on right now.

 

[FDJ2]

The problem for FAPA is they're being forced to negotiate with a gun to their head. Not the first time this has happened in this industry and it makes me sick to my stomache knowing another good bunch of pilots has to suffer through it.

The F9 pilots have seniority rights, they ought to jealously protect them. If they fold to the bullying tactics of SWA and SWAPA then they deserve what they get. Unlike the TWA/AA seniority surrender, the F9 pilots are protected by federal law. They ought to get an opportunity for a fair and equitable seniority integration.

 

[johnsonrod]

Everyone talks about the need for airline consolidation. They say there are too many low-cost carriers and seats and capacity needs to be cut. Well, the SWA pilots decide they know what is best - not their management. SWA needs DEN growth and access to new markets (i.e., ATL) and it needs to reduce the number of low-cost competitors out there to juice its own margins and protect/build market share.

Imagine if this deal does not happen due to SWA pilot arrogance... What a STRATEGIC BLUNDER that would be....

 

[FDJ2]

There's a lot of posturing going on right now.

No doubt and a lot of panic too. It looks like SWA management blind sided all involved.

SWAPA and FAPA would be well adviced to focus their energies on negotiating a transition agreement, JCBA and a SLI process agreement with a date certain integrated list prior to SOC. This will buy all sides time.

 

[vv100]

FAPA’s concerns are:

* Job Protection
* Seat Protection
* Pay Protection
* Domicile Protection


Ok let's make it about Integration.

Integrate at 50% of the WN list.
10-1 ratio after
NO furlough clause for WN pilots
NO DEN domicile protection
F9 pilots keep their current pay rates\benefits\vacation for a minimum of 5 years

Everybody loses.
Y'all happy with that?

 

[Richard Gozinya]

deleted

 

[Cardinal]

But when I hear the FAPA guys are trying to negotiate things like "first rights to Denver 737 spots" FOREVER, then we get a bit defensive. There's a lot of posturing going on right now.

Exactly the problem. SWAPA Communications have really played fast and loose with this deal. It's like they are actively trying to stir up a hornet's nest. It's wildly counterproductive at this extremely delicate time. There's plenty of emotion, plenty of skin in the game on both sides. To have SWAPA Comm throwing fuel on the fire with these updates pisses off both sides. To what end? Leash the dogs.

In other news, thanks for the olive branch, Elcid. I have low expectations, and 'd be thrilled with a staple, but the caustic attitude on this board truly has me concerned.

 

[firstthird]

SWA is out. RAH wins.

 

[Dude]

So SWAPA Communications is to blame? Our union stated fact and tried to illustrate what they thought to be a good deal for the F9 guys.

It doesn't matter now dude. Good luck with Republic. What are y'all going to do when Virgin America negotiates for the majority of your busses?

Bedford is a liar, but good luck. I am sure you'll have a much more promising career with Republic than a company that has NEVER furloughed, sought concessions, or bent labor over a barrel. How did Republic treat the Midwest dudes, again?

 

[RedRum]

Touche.

But when I hear the FAPA guys are trying to negotiate things like "first rights to Denver 737 spots" FOREVER, then we get a bit defensive. There's a lot of posturing going on right now.

Kind of sounds like the same end of the spectrum from the SWAPA guys. A staple job?

I seriously respect the author of this thread. I bet he is one good guy to fly with. You, on the other hand don't understand reality. I don't understand your high and mighty stance on things. You have got to get over yourself.

After a 5 year furlough, I realized that the sun didn't set on what airline I flew for. I found other employment. I agree with the previous poster that I cannot judge what is best for F9 pilots, but I sure as hell wouldn't want them to be someone's lap dog. I think it is great if their leadership wanted no-furlough assurances. Woudln't you want that if the same were happening to you?

Golden Rule:

“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” (Matthew 7:12)

 

[puddlejumper101]

kudos to SWA mgmt. Also, I am sure there is a contingency plan in the works as we speak in SWA HDQTRS. Mergers, acquisitions, buyouts are never easy. CH11 is what made this deal a little different than say NWA/DAL. I don't know what the furure holds for SWA, but one thing I do know is MGMT in Dallas is far from stupid. They drive this boat and have always managed to figure out a way to do it right. SWA is ready to pounce on any and every opportunity that comes their way. This was definately an opportunity, appeared and disappeared overnight. I think SWA knows something about what is going on at UAL that most of us don't. I think this whole thing centered around the fact that UAL is not doing good at all. To be continued......

 

[SWA GUY]

Golden Rule:

“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” (Matthew 7:12)

"The dude with the chrome .45 makes the rules" (Alternate Golden Rule).