Today's Update from NJA

[Crobar]

Take the example that I mentioned earlier--take the NJI FOs and grandfather them---allow them to move up within the Gulfstream fleet as they would have prior to the integration announcement--that is such a small thing but would send such a huge message.

Funniest thing I've read in a long time, keep that coming, could use more good laughs!

 

[CE750Driver]

Well, as I said, a few things with the IBB weren't perfect. I myself was on the union boards pointing out what I perceived as some flaws when we were reviewing the document before the vote. However, most of the issues have either been resolved, or haven't proven to be nearly the large problems that some thought they would.

As for chatter on the message boards, same gripes by the same few people ALL THE TIME! These are the folks who will simply never be happy. I've heard all the complaints about how the integration with the "I" side are unfair. And there has turned out to be absolutely no merit in them whatsoever. We get ALL the co-pilot slots. And we get 1/3 of ALL the captain slots. Yes, even if the only slots are in the GV. How? Because the LOA says we get 1/3 of ALL the captain slots. So if they have 10 openings in the GV, but no current openings in the GIV, they MUST create 3 openings in the GIV anyway for our captains. So regardless of which Gulfstream has the spots (even if it's currently a plane we can't start in) there still MUST be an equivalent number of captain spots made available in the GIV for us. Now, the BIG question is what happens if all the GIV's are phased out before the final integration. How do they make spots in a fleet that doesn't exist anymore? My understanding (it could be wrong, but perhaps BW could clarify it) is that we will get spots following the exact same procedure that current NJI F/O's would have to follow. In other words, if we are able to start F/O's on the GV, then we'll simply start putting our own captains in the GV. However, I find it highly unlikely the GIV's will all be gone prior to the final integration, so I think it's a moot point. And once the integration is complete, getting into ANY Gulfstream will be done the same way any of our other planes are now, by seniority bidding.

Other than that one issue, what's so unfair about the integration LOA? Like I said, same few people on the union boards complaining about anything and everything. And most of theses things turn out to be a non-issue.

Did you follow all the griping from a certain few about how the 18-day reduced schedule would cause all the senior folks to bid over and bump the junior folks off the 18-day? So, have you heard ANYTHING about junior folks being bumped enmasse off the 18-day because of some large influx of senior guys to the 18-day reduced? Hmmmm, seems to have turned out to be a non-issue. I'm sure a few were bumped, but it seems most retained the schedule type they wanted. Ah well, never let what actually happens get in the way of what a few hotheads think will happen. Being angry and disgruntled is always much more fun!

A and B scale for basing? Hardly. Folks keep forgetting that while, yes, we did vote in only 5 bases for crews in 2005, the senior folks stepped up and helped ratify IBB in '07 which eliminated a HUGE part of the HBA system for those that already had it. If anyone currently on the HBA system ever wants to change to a city that is part of the 100 crew bases, they lose the ability, forever, to go back onto the HBA system. So complain all you want, things aren't that far apart on basing as you think, and in fact are getting closer together. But again, those on the union boards are far "happier" complaining about everything than acknowledging things aren't quite as bad as they make it out to be when presenting only one side of the story.

There are some seniority issues. Can't deny it. But you know, EVERYONE had the same opportunity to read over the IBB document prior to ratification, and much of what is being complained about now was not caught by the folks doing the complaining, yet they somehow expected our union leadership to catch EVERY little gotcha. But these same complainers don't seem to wanna step up and volunteer with the union to hep make things better.

Personally, I'm more interested in the blatant crap the company is pulling, such as the complete ignoring of the whole PFP part of the CBA. I'd rather have our union pursuing that matter than wasting time putting out apologies to all those that feel the leadership didn't live up to their expectations.

Again, I don't doubt you've flown with some unhappy folks. But I haven't. I agree there are some areas the union hasn't adequately covered, but maybe it's more of a staffing issue than anything else. We the pilots (as well as the company), keep piling absolute mountains of crap on the union leadership's plate, and then pitch a fit when personal favorite issue du jour isn't covered IMMEDIATELY. Utterly silly.

Sorry to hear you fly with so many unhappy folks. Must be a real drag. With all that's going on I'm personally VERY happy that we won't aren't going to be asked to contribute to (or pay for entirely) our health insurance, or lose our 401K company match, or take a pay cut, until much later. It does tend to put things in perspective a bit for me.

This cracks me up. When I talk to you in person. You talk different. I'm confused....... Really.

 

[CE750Driver]

Being an informed wife makes me an easy target for those so inclined, especially when I debate effectively. And you accuse others of attacking those who bring up points... Discerning readers won't miss the hypocrisy in your posts. In your eyes I've gone from being brainwashed to holding a vice grip on my husband-- in the space of two posts. I'm comfortable leaving it to the readers to decide whose posts carry weight and have validity in the topics debated.

At least my opinions are respectful, consistent...and mainstream...

Someone who knows nothing says what??????

My wife may be a nuclear scientist. Watching a message board and seeing her opionions of work does not give me the expertise to share my opinions with her peers.

Someone who does so, would have to have an ego the size of Texas.

 

[netjetwife]

This forum is designed to accommodate diversity and a pilot's license is not a requirement to share an interest in frac issues. Most here recognize that and welcome informed/interested posters to the discussion. Those who object to non-pilot posters (or any other) can easily make use of the ignore function. Customizing one's screen is a more mature/polite response than attempted censorship. It also makes for a friendlier atmosphere--hint, hint.

Considering that the CBA and the labor-management relationship have a profound impact on our NJ families, I'm surprised that more spouses don't post here in addition to reading the board. I bet it has something to do with the non-pilot discrimination spouses sometimes face... It does rear its ugly head occasionally, but I believe those who discriminate are in the minority. That has been my experience--thanks everyone! NJW

 

[realityman]

This cracks me up. When I talk to you in person. You talk different. I'm confused....... Really.

Can't say I can figure who you are. Although it's probably not too difficult to figure who I am.

My attitudes do change over time, and with more and better info. As I said, I've personally brought up some issues in the past on the union boards. But if you know who I am, you'll also know I haven't posted there in a while. Tired of the crap on the boards. But before I quit, I was defending the same things I am over here. No inconsistencies.

I originally thought some things about the integration weren't fair. Spent a lot of time listening to the complaints. But after talking with some union folks, I changed my mind. Things weren't as others were leading me to believe.

As for talking in person, can't remember saying anything RECENTLY to anyone that is contrary to what I'm posting here. I've only been back at work for a couple tours after being away for 2.5 months on a FMLA leave. I can't even recall talking contract or IBB stuff with anyone these past few tours, or even in the tours leading up to my FMLA.

Since you think you know who I am, perhaps you could PM me with your name? It would help me remember when we spoke, and anything in between that would have caused me an attitude shift since I spoke with you.

But other than some things with the integration, I don't think I've changed my opinions on the other stuff. With the exception that the current economy has made me happier with what we presently have.

 

[Diesel]

Considering that the CBA and the labor-management relationship have a profound impact on our NJ families, I'm surprised that more spouses don't post here in addition to reading the board. I bet it has something to do with the non-pilot discrimination spouses sometimes face... It does rear its ugly head occasionally, but I believe those who discriminate are in the minority. That has been my experience--thanks everyone! NJW

Probably because most spouses are busy leading their own lives. Or have healthier hobbies.

 

[hyflyin]

:laugh:

Probably because most spouses are busy leading their own lives. Or have healthier hobbies.

 

[SCT]

Probably because most spouses are busy leading their own lives. Or have healthier hobbies.

I'll 3rd that Diesel and Hyflyin.............

 

[fischman]

Thanks again for you honest and educated answers. I do hope this all works out but I see and honestly feel some of the bitterness and resentment those on the NJI side feel. I'm feel certain that professionalism will rule in the cockpit, it is outside that environment I'm somewhat concerned.

Harley,

In all honesty, I'm not sure what there is to be concerned about? Are you concerned about paying dues? 1 hour of OT (that you will receive only because of NJASAP) will pay for the dues.

Are you concerned about losing your aircraft/seat?

Are you worried about you pay going down?

Are you worried about your quality of life on the road? At home?

Are you worried about management?

All of these questions are addressed in the LOA and have been answered by Brian.

Or does the term "union" scare you?

Seriously, NJI has only gains here. We aren't your historical bullying union that demands the impossible. We are smart, well informed, well paid, and well represented (when necessary) pilots.

I'm not trying to be a jerk. These are honest questions. I honestly don't understand what the apprehension is about?

With respects,

fischman

 

[ozpilot]

Good post fischman

So far the only disadvantage that I see for the 'I' side is the replacement of company paid meals with per Diem.