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Net Jets to Furlough 500...??? Right...

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I'll let BeeDubya handle the implications of that scenario......
 
gutshotdraw said:
.... A pilot that age would be CONSIDERING RETIREMENT ANYWAY and this is a great way to pull the plug on their career while benefiting themselves AND those pilots junior to them. This program is good for the company AND good for the pilots. And their families, too. It's a generous but cost-effective (read win-win) option that will quite nicely ease a couple's transition to retirement or provide a good jump start to a second career. I totally agree that it makes a great ending to a career that involved a difficult lifestyle and cost lots of family time.

..... But I must say that the NJASAP leadership has exhibited remarkable pragmatism, flexibility, and cooperation with the company in dealing with the market conditions. NJASAP AIN'T the UAW, the Teamsters, or any other old-school, intransigent, angry union.
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Absolutely! Just as IBB was a joint project, pilot input has, again, been instrumental in creating another win-win scenario. So much so that it has been adapted for every employee group at NetJets. From shared research notes to communication plans, NJASAP has pitched in to help.

NJASAP leaders aren't just a credit to the NJA/I pilots; they are role models for all NJ employees, and as such, deserve lots of kudos and recognition for helping to produce (brainstorm and broadcast) the Joint Preventive Measures that are setting a new standard for the industry. NJW
 
gutshotdraw said:
One more BTW: new reports from NJI management indicate the "early out" option has been more popular than expected and they actually might not be able to accomodate all the requests.
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I had dinner with a friend of mine who's an 8-year guy on the XL and he has put in for the early out. His concern is that he might not be senior enough to get the deal.

I truly hope that he gets the early out and I also hope that the popularity of that deal and the other preventative measures stop any furloughs from occurring.
 
I'm pretty sure all the pilots who ask for early out will get it. Some just may have to wait quite a while before they are allowed to go. The company sorely needs less pilots, but they also need to process the exodus in an orderly fashion. My guess is that there will be some captain and FO bids coming out once the bidding is done for the early outs and the 3 year LOAs. I'm definitely NOT predicting any new captain upgrades, just an orderly reshuffling to get the fleets staffed as needed.
 
jtf said:
I'm definitely NOT predicting any new captain upgrades, just an orderly reshuffling to get the fleets staffed as needed.
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That sounds about right. I would imagine the company may also stagger the dates of the early-out options to allow any possible training time to fill fleets that may suffer the most from any exodus.
 
That would be my guess as well.

Management is being very tight-lipped about exactly how many or who. They have made reference to legal limitations on naming names. It would be kind of nice to be able to bid happy trails......
 
It would mean a lot, I'm sure, for the NJI pilots leaving to receive the well wishes of their peers. Perhaps they will voluntarily post their decision on the now-open NJI message board section of the NJASAP website.
 
imacdog said:
That sounds about right. I would imagine the company may also stagger the dates of the early-out options to allow any possible training time to fill fleets that may suffer the most from any exodus.
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I would be willing to bet that you will see displacements off of the ultra and 800xph before you see open bids. That would allow the company to get away with one type rating to fill a vacancy. Opening things up to the entire pilot group to reshuffle things might create a lot more training cycles.
 
B*skanza posted:

How many of these pilots gave up decent flying jobs to go to work at NJ with the rosy picture the union was painting for the future?
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Will you please show the good folks here at FI where NJASAP recruited pilots?

I can tell you that the vast majority ( I haven't met a naysayer yet ) of pilots didn't leave a "decent" flying job to come over here. I'm sure there's one out there somewhere, but most came here because the grass wasn't so "decent" on the other side.
 
I keep reading the CBA and i still can't find the section that gives NJASAP the final say on how many pilots must be employed......
 
steelersrule74 said:
I keep reading the CBA and i still can't find the section that gives NJASAP the final say on how many pilots must be employed......
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As many as I say. I am the end all be all of total awesomeness.

Bow before me minions!!!!
 
steelersrule74 said:
I keep reading the CBA and i still can't find the section that gives NJASAP the final say on how many pilots must be employed......
Click to expand...

Amazing, you can't read the work rules/days off/scheduling sections of the contract?

Please don't tell me that you don't understand how staffing models are developed for any company.

Please don't tell me that you are actually looking for a number inside the CBA that tells how many pilots per airplane need to be hired...

Wow... how rookie does that get?
 
B19 Flyer said:
the fact that the union at NJ has cost the company millions of dollars and forced an overstaffing of the company which in turn is putting pilots out of work, voluntary or not.
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This one sentence really is proof that B19 is a paid union buster. If he really was in management and believed this, then he is severely overestimating his own intelligence level. Since he's probably not as stupid in real life as he seems on this message board, the only logical explanation behind statements like this is that he is paid to write them, whether he believes them or not. :)
 
From the idiocy of his statements ... one would have to conclude B19 is really Joe Biden. Could there really be TWO people in the universe that dumb?

Mr 19... did NJ overstaff because of the union? Or did they overstaff because they anticipated SELLING 50 to 100 airplanes in 2009?

... and the hiring continued in order to staff those planes which according to Cessna they expect those orders to be canceled!
 
B19 Flyer said:
Amazing, you can't read the work rules/days off/scheduling sections of the contract?

Please don't tell me that you don't understand how staffing models are developed for any company.

Please don't tell me that you are actually looking for a number inside the CBA that tells how many pilots per airplane need to be hired...

Wow... how rookie does that get?
Click to expand...
I recommend you watch the collective works of David Spade.
 
DUATS said:
gunfyter said:
From the idiocy of his statements ... one would have to conclude B19 is really Joe Biden. Could there really be TWO people in the universe that dumb?

QUOTE]


Can you say "Dan Quayle"?
Click to expand...

Sorry... Dan Quayle is no Jack Kennedy but he is also no Joe Biden .... :)
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Last edited:
imacdog said:
This one sentence really is proof that B19 is a paid union buster. If he really was in management and believed this, then he is severely overestimating his own intelligence level. Since he's probably not as stupid in real life as he seems on this message board, the only logical explanation behind statements like this is that he is paid to write them, whether he believes them or not. :)
Click to expand...

Netjets is overstaffed not only to projected hiring, but staffing levels higher than industry average. NJ is paying for this mess, not the union.

All of you said this could never happen, but it did, didn't it?
 
Still nary a mention of the world economy I see, sigh. Dear B19, would you mind explaining why the other jet fractional companies with no union and no CBA have furloughed? Surely with no restrictive CBA in place, those companies should have been able to staff their companies perfectly. After all, it can't have anything to do with the severe downturn in private aviation as a whole. ;)
 
They don't have a CBA to fight with.

imacdog said:
Still nary a mention of the world economy I see, sigh. Dear B19, would you mind explaining why the other jet fractional companies with no union and no CBA have furloughed? Surely with no restrictive CBA in place, those companies should have been able to staff their companies perfectly. After all, it can't have anything to do with the severe downturn in private aviation as a whole. ;)
Click to expand...

All of you blamed the industry downturn of the legacy carriers and bankruptcies on poor management 7 years ago, not the economy. Now you blame it on the economy? 7 years ago the industry leading contracts and poor economy had more to do than bad management.

History is about to repeat itself. An industry leading contract coupled with a downturn in the economy is creating havoc at NJ, and NJ is paying for it. It will unfortunatly get worse before it gets better, and I predict that the industry leading contract will be cut back to reality just like the legacy carriers were. All the other fracs have to do is stand pat... they've already circled the wagons. They don't have a CBA to fight with.
 
B*skanza posted:

An industry leading contract coupled with a downturn in the economy is creating havoc at NJ, and NJ is paying for it.
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Havoc? What havoc? Can you show an example of this? Everything I've seen out of the company and the union has been to HELP OUR PEOPLE. Nothing more, nothing less. If you have any "insider" info, do tell.

BTW you haven't answered my NJASAP recruiting question...

It's easy to predict self fulfilling prophecies. Quite another thing to back up blatant lies.
 
B19 Flyer said:
All the other fracs have to do is stand pat... they've already circled the wagons. They don't have a CBA to fight with.
Click to expand...

They've done more than just stand pat; they've laid off workers. Why is that when they never had a CBA to "force the company into overstaffing"? ;)
 

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