ATC Shortage; why age restriction?

[siucavflight]

Lots of observing.

Where did you do your observing? How many controllers have you observed?

 

[BillJBrake]

hundreds at numerous facilities.

you seem pretty pent up on this...are you a controller or insulted somehow? or have you spent a lot of time observing controllers and have noticed that the sharpest are the 50 year olds?

 

[siucavflight]

I am just wondering how a line tech has spent so much time observing controllers, and why?

 

[CX880]

I am just wondering how a line tech has spent so much time observing controllers, and why?

siucavflight, is the heat getting to you? Are you in the desert right now flying the Sultan or are you in Chicago? Or are you at the north pole flying Santa? Let it go sounds like he's got more experience to back his statement more than you do to argue it.

 

[BillJBrake]

I'm one of them connected line techs, I guess.

You're really having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that someone else might have more experience or knowledge in a certain subject of aviation than you do, eh? If you didn't come across as such a d!ck in most of your posts and on this forum I'd consider giving you some information and maybe sharing info, telling you more about my experience, what facets of aviation I'm currently involved in, etc. But why should I bother dishing out that kinda stuff when I get questioned, doubted, and insulted. I'm content keeping that stuff to myself.

Your attitude won't get you very far, sorry.

 

[siucavflight]

I just find it insulting to the many controllers I know who are over 45 who do a great job to be told by a line guy that they are not qualified to hold their position any longer.

Enjoy your day.

siucavflight, is the heat getting to you? Are you in the desert right now flying the Sultan or are you in Chicago? Or are you at the north pole flying Santa? Let it go sounds like he's got more experience to back his statement more than you do to argue it.

Is this an attempt by the Go-jet scab to insult me.

 

[pilotjustin]

I'm a young controller at a Center and just wanted to chime in. I don't really see a slow down in scan/working speed as controllers age. If they do, their experience makes up for it. I think there should be an age requirement for hiring. Yeah, facilities are short staffed..but they can only train so many people at a time (it takes anywhere from 2-5 years to train someone at a center). The short staffing is all due to poor planning by the FAA by not training people early enough. Some trainees can be all-stars and others will wash-out, but it seems that the younger you are the easier it is to catch on. An experienced pilot may know alot about aviation, but that doesn't mean that he'd (she'd) be a good controller. There are some controllers that are pilots, but most are not. Controlling is all about seeing in three dimensions, forecasting conflicts/problems, and coming up with multiple solutions to fix it. It's like saying that an experienced racecar driver would have to be a good racecar mechanic as well! The jobs are both car related, but their functions are much different.

(Don't go by my flying experience in my profile. I'm a comm pilot, 450 hrs)

 

[samballs]

I always liked Roger in CHI center, ask for direct and he would always reply "ok go direct, welcome to Mr. Rogers neighborhood". You could always tell the next controller was annoyed Roger would put everybody direct

 

[LJ45]

exactly. from what I've seen, being a controller is a MUCH harder job than being a pilot. Being a pilot doesn't mean you can work as a controller. (Granted, not all controllers can be pilots, either) but comparing the skills, intensity, and difficulties in each job, and I'd say that controlling is much harder.

That is the stupidest thing I ever read on here. Have you done both?
By the way...There are easy controller job and easy pilot jobs, also hard pilot jobs and hard controller jobs.

:smash:

 

[siucavflight]

That is the stupidest thing I ever read on here. Have you done both?
By the way...There are easy controller job and easy pilot jobs, also hard pilot jobs and hard controller jobs.

:smash:

He is a line guy, so he does have a lot of experience.

 

[Nolife]

Controlling is all about seeing in three dimensions, forecasting conflicts/problems, and coming up with multiple solutions to fix it.

Oddly enough those are the same functions of a pilot flying IMC; thinking in three dimensions, anticipating potential problems, and finding safety and efficient solutions to those problems.

I'm over 31 however I'm certain I could give out clearances, record ATIS, and broadcast the phone number to call after a pilot deviation.

 

[405]

31 my ass.

 

[Len]

I really think the age restriction is kind of sad. When I was in my twenties I was a sonar supervisor on a fast attack submarine. I don't think there is any non-atc job that transfers as well as that one. I doubt there are any former sonar techs on this board to back me up but it seems to me that managing a high contact environment where not only the contacts are moving but you are moving requires the same type of skillset that controllers use. The blips are just different!

When I was able to make a career jump I really wanted to be a controller. I had ten years of government service toward my retirement but at the time I found out I was too old at 33. Thats when I started flying instead.

Bummer, I'd still like to be a controller and I'm unemployed too... Now, at 41 I'm way to old.

 

[papanovember]

The old crusty guys in ORD are the best controllers in the world and are being replaced by guys who just don't compare.

 

[linder]

The age 31 thing is derived from Public Law 92-297, signed in 1971. That is the law that mandates any controller hired after 5/72 cannot be a controller after reaching their 56th birthday. Hiring in at age 31 (-1 day) allows the individual to qualify for government retirement when they have 25 years of ATC experience. Hiring someone who is, say, 40, means that when they had to quit at age 56, they would only have 16 years and therefore not be eligible for any retirement.

There are certain situations where someone who had specific experience (ie, had been qualified on 2 positions in an FAA facility in the preceeding year) could be hired up to age 36 because they would qualify for retirement under the 20 years/age 50 rule. This would apply to a military controller whose facility controlled civilian airspace.

Just like the airline pilot age 60 rule, 92-297 has nothing to do with ability. It's political, but it's here and there is nothing anyone can do about it except through political means (ie, repeal the law).

Regarding the Mensa qualified lineguy: It takes about 5 years to become a reasonably competent controller. It takes another 5 years (or more) to COMPLETELY understand all of the job and system. Some don't even really understand it after those 10 years. So, just like all the other "consultants, psychologists, etc., etc.", unless he actually worked the system for about 10 years or so he doesn't have a clue as to what he is observing. Maybe he is the guy who came up with the brilliant "Free Flight" concept. Yeah...right. That one really worked out well!!!!

BTW...one of the best controllers I ever saw in action was over the age of 60.