Anyone getting jr. manned at ASA today?

[USCtrojan]

It's all speculation till you see them on the property. My guess if they do the deal, Delta will extend the SkyWest Inc. contract. There will be some kind of play going on.

Trojan

 

[JoeMerchant]

Where on earth are they going to find the airplanes from? 13 from Comair and 6 from Mesaba? They can't add any more 900s.

The 2 for 1 deal is an absolutely horrible deal for everybody involved except Delta. I can't see why ASA/Skywest would continue to fall for it.

The 50 is a dead man walking....The only reason there were so many was because the scope line was at 50...They are incredibly inefficient for most of the flying they do...

Skywest is smart to jump on as many of the larger RJs as they can....

 

[ACL65PILOT]

ASA have a contract for a % of the flying. Not a specific number of flts. There is protection in that, but not as much as you might thing. Plus year five is quite close.

 

[crj567]

It would be a management function. Not a union one. From the tea leaves over on this side of VA. Ave. it sounds like they are going to take it. Not that they are going to have much choice.

(Take em while you can get them, the 50's are going either way)

I love this guy-

One minute he is crowing about his roots at ASA, but then he returns to being a complete tool and starts back with a pretty decent Gen Lee impersonation.

-Life at the lowly "commuter" was a long time ago, eh?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Give it up.

Fact is that there are 32 jets after the current order that can be 76 seat jets. That is correct, we are that close to the 255 limit. There are a bunch of 70 seaters in that too. Problem is that unless they get a great deal from the manufacturer there is no way they will trade in a 70 for six more seats.
So you have these 15 or so on order than 32 after that.
That was the point.

As for the 50's. They are on record about that. Put your head in the sand if you choose. As these contracts hit year five there will be some changes. Having these big jets will ge good for you.
Also FWIW we would like a bilateral flow with you like CPS. If we cannot get ya'll on the list, this is a good way to get you on here if you want. (Of course flow needs to work both ways)

 

[JumpersAway]

Give it up.

Fact is that there are 32 jets after the current order that can be 76 seat jets. That is correct, we are that close to the 255 limit. There are a bunch of 70 seaters in that too. Problem is that unless they get a great deal from the manufacturer there is no way they will trade in a 70 for six more seats.
So you have these 15 or so on order than 32 after that.
That was the point.

As for the 50's. They are on record about that. Put your head in the sand if you choose. As these contracts hit year five there will be some changes. Having these big jets will ge good for you.
Also FWIW we would like a bilateral flow with you like CPS. If we cannot get ya'll on the list, this is a good way to get you on here if you want. (Of course flow needs to work both ways)

ACL- I agree something needs to be done in order to close the regional/mainline gap. Perhaps flow is a way to go about this. However, I am still extremely skeptical about a flowup/flowdown. Just look at Eagle. If there is a flow up/flowdown, I feel it should be done in an equitable manner- not just a 1 in 4 shot at passing an interview with a psych test. Just curious about your thoughts on it. How would you propose a flow up, provided a flow back gives Delta pilots super seniority at ASA?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I agree, I want it to all be under one list. I think flows are a nice way to keep a B scale of the mainline's scope of responsibility.

I personally am a huge supporter of unity at all ranks. I am also realistic. Things have to be done in steps.
All of this talk about a min DCI contract and bilateral flow is a nice way of keeping costs low at DCI etc. A flow is a good first step, but it needs to be followed with more DCI pilots flying for the mainline, and those seats coming back as well. This is the only way we can effectivly restore the profession.
Fighting against each other only furthers the goals of management and divides our union. Ego's need to be put aside for the greater good of our associations membership as a whole. (I know big dream, but reality normally starts with a dream)

As for CJR567's comments, he just does not get it. It is not about you, it is about better paying jobs and restoring the oursourced flying to mainline. Doing what I mentioned about helps the regional pilot. Look long term you probably have a long career head of you. Short term thinking got us in to this mess.

 

[JumpersAway]

I am beginning to think that a long term future at ASA is not in the cards. I feel bad for the guys that are giving up the opportunities to move on, due to the pay cuts. Actually, I'm thinking that everyone at ASA will eventually be forced to start over, one way or another. CRJ567 isn't understanding that, I'm guessing, you fealt the same way and thus decided to move on. I know you were senior enough to have stayed at ASA and to have made a good living without the move to Delta. However, ACL, your move is indicative of how you see the long term at ASA. Can't say I blame you here.

I pour my heart out for this company, and I have much respect for those I work beside. However, I don't think that a long term game plan is in store between Delta and ASA. About the only thing I think would keep ASA in the picture long term would be a complete recreation of Skywest Inc with the downfall of United- Something I hope doesn't happen. Everyone has their own guestimate of the future, but this is mine. Once that agreement is up between ASA and Delta...................

 

[ACL65PILOT]

You are dead on. I loved working at ASA. Loved the people, and the flying I was doing.
I had a long chat with some of the top leaders here at at ASA right before I left. ASA has a 20 year contract with DAL. We are though three of them, so there will be a decent career there for anyone 43 and older. As for guys and gals that are younger, there is a lot of uncertainty. DAL feels trapped by these contracts, and I am sure that every chance they get they will be amended.
Trust me it will happen.
I looked at my seniority. I was holding my top two to three choices in lines, my weeks of vacation, a seniority number below 300 etc. In the end my family and I made the decision to come to DAL.
In hind sight, it really was a no brainier. My QOL these last few years has been 100's of times better than it was at ASA. Heck I never check my paycheck to see if it is correct. It is, always. I do not care much about whom I fly with, they have all been great. The QOL at and away from work over here is better than I had hoped for. Remember it is still at bankrupcy contract. That says a lot.
I say to you. If we cannot change the way we bring people on, jump at the first chance you get. You will be happy you did.
Also for Joe. I make more sitting reserve and never flying that I did flying 1000 hrs a year with 11 days off. That even includes the LCA override.

 

[buscap]

Yeah, but what about turds like me?

Delta doesn't want me!!!

I gotta make a living!!!

I didn't study hard enough in college and now I'm just plain stupid!!!

 

[crj567]

Yeah, but what about turds like me?

Delta doesn't want me!!!

I gotta make a living!!!

I didn't study hard enough in college and now I'm just plain stupid!!!

ACL doesn't give a rat about you, me or anyone else (we don't count anymore).... I got him all cheesed off and now he is back on his "unity" kick... Back to his "can't we all just get along, brothers?" garbage....

Just read more of his posts. ACL is a pompus ass in training. Give him a few more years and he will be just as big of a jackass as the General.

Every time I think about people like ACL, I conclude that they have simply lost perspective. I know of one guy who was probably the most pompus jackoff I have ever seen by the end of his time at ASA. I also know this guy was almost fired in his probationary year for being a complete disrespectful tool...

From cying his eyeballs out in the CPO to flying a "big plane" at DAL. A lot of people helped him out along the way-a lot of people who had a choice (perhaps they made the wrong chice, in hindsight.)

It would be nice to not see so many people lose perspective. The cry-baby I am thinking of is now living large and enjoying his times across the street, but it could have turned out very differently had some "pompus asses" handled his case back then.

-I'm sure plenty of people looked out for ACl back in the day, but darn if he cares now.

 

[USCtrojan]

I am absoulutely against any type of flow through agreement. It's never been a flow through, it's always been a flush down. With all due respect, no thank you.

Trojan

 

[sweptback]

I am absoulutely against any type of flow through agreement. It's never been a flow through, it's always been a flush down. With all due respect, no thank you.

Trojan

The only way I could possibly see a flow-through working:

All new hires at Delta come from participating regionals with a flow-through (no off the street hiring, period).
And then, the only pilots allowed to flow back are the ones that came from that company (ie, you flow up from ASA, you flow down to ASA, and only the number that flow up get to flow down). If you choose not to flow up, you don't lose your seat nor seniority to somebody flowing down.

It's a moot point, because there's no way that Delta would hire exclusively from their regionals. But until they do, a flow-through is DOA.

 

[crj567]

The only way I could possibly see a flow-through working:

All new hires at Delta come from participating regionals with a flow-through (no off the street hiring, period).
And then, the only pilots allowed to flow back are the ones that came from that company (ie, you flow up from ASA, you flow down to ASA, and only the number that flow up get to flow down). If you choose not to flow up, you don't lose your seat nor seniority to somebody flowing down.

It's a moot point, because there's no way that Delta would hire exclusively from their regionals. But until they do, a flow-through is DOA.

Couldn't have put it better myself....

 

[79%N1]

So because we are in the worst economy since the 30's, and every company on earth is cutting back for cost savings and survival, Delta included, and ASA is losing (ooops, I mean loosing) some block hours and airframes (that they traded for better airframes albeit at a net loss) and was forced to furlough some pilots recently - you believe ASA is going away in the near term???? Huh! In complete disregard for the operational improvements made by new management, and as Delta's largest regional partner you think ASA is going away? For what reason? Just take a breath. It will be OK. ASA is not going anywhere.