Anyone getting jr. manned at ASA today?

[JumpersAway]

Give it up.

Fact is that there are 32 jets after the current order that can be 76 seat jets. That is correct, we are that close to the 255 limit. There are a bunch of 70 seaters in that too. Problem is that unless they get a great deal from the manufacturer there is no way they will trade in a 70 for six more seats.
So you have these 15 or so on order than 32 after that.
That was the point.

As for the 50's. They are on record about that. Put your head in the sand if you choose. As these contracts hit year five there will be some changes. Having these big jets will ge good for you.
Also FWIW we would like a bilateral flow with you like CPS. If we cannot get ya'll on the list, this is a good way to get you on here if you want. (Of course flow needs to work both ways)

ACL- I agree something needs to be done in order to close the regional/mainline gap. Perhaps flow is a way to go about this. However, I am still extremely skeptical about a flowup/flowdown. Just look at Eagle. If there is a flow up/flowdown, I feel it should be done in an equitable manner- not just a 1 in 4 shot at passing an interview with a psych test. Just curious about your thoughts on it. How would you propose a flow up, provided a flow back gives Delta pilots super seniority at ASA?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I agree, I want it to all be under one list. I think flows are a nice way to keep a B scale of the mainline's scope of responsibility.

I personally am a huge supporter of unity at all ranks. I am also realistic. Things have to be done in steps.
All of this talk about a min DCI contract and bilateral flow is a nice way of keeping costs low at DCI etc. A flow is a good first step, but it needs to be followed with more DCI pilots flying for the mainline, and those seats coming back as well. This is the only way we can effectivly restore the profession.
Fighting against each other only furthers the goals of management and divides our union. Ego's need to be put aside for the greater good of our associations membership as a whole. (I know big dream, but reality normally starts with a dream)

As for CJR567's comments, he just does not get it. It is not about you, it is about better paying jobs and restoring the oursourced flying to mainline. Doing what I mentioned about helps the regional pilot. Look long term you probably have a long career head of you. Short term thinking got us in to this mess.

 

[JumpersAway]

I am beginning to think that a long term future at ASA is not in the cards. I feel bad for the guys that are giving up the opportunities to move on, due to the pay cuts. Actually, I'm thinking that everyone at ASA will eventually be forced to start over, one way or another. CRJ567 isn't understanding that, I'm guessing, you fealt the same way and thus decided to move on. I know you were senior enough to have stayed at ASA and to have made a good living without the move to Delta. However, ACL, your move is indicative of how you see the long term at ASA. Can't say I blame you here.

I pour my heart out for this company, and I have much respect for those I work beside. However, I don't think that a long term game plan is in store between Delta and ASA. About the only thing I think would keep ASA in the picture long term would be a complete recreation of Skywest Inc with the downfall of United- Something I hope doesn't happen. Everyone has their own guestimate of the future, but this is mine. Once that agreement is up between ASA and Delta...................

 

[ACL65PILOT]

You are dead on. I loved working at ASA. Loved the people, and the flying I was doing.
I had a long chat with some of the top leaders here at at ASA right before I left. ASA has a 20 year contract with DAL. We are though three of them, so there will be a decent career there for anyone 43 and older. As for guys and gals that are younger, there is a lot of uncertainty. DAL feels trapped by these contracts, and I am sure that every chance they get they will be amended.
Trust me it will happen.
I looked at my seniority. I was holding my top two to three choices in lines, my weeks of vacation, a seniority number below 300 etc. In the end my family and I made the decision to come to DAL.
In hind sight, it really was a no brainier. My QOL these last few years has been 100's of times better than it was at ASA. Heck I never check my paycheck to see if it is correct. It is, always. I do not care much about whom I fly with, they have all been great. The QOL at and away from work over here is better than I had hoped for. Remember it is still at bankrupcy contract. That says a lot.
I say to you. If we cannot change the way we bring people on, jump at the first chance you get. You will be happy you did.
Also for Joe. I make more sitting reserve and never flying that I did flying 1000 hrs a year with 11 days off. That even includes the LCA override.

 

[buscap]

Yeah, but what about turds like me?

Delta doesn't want me!!!

I gotta make a living!!!

I didn't study hard enough in college and now I'm just plain stupid!!!

 

[crj567]

Yeah, but what about turds like me?

Delta doesn't want me!!!

I gotta make a living!!!

I didn't study hard enough in college and now I'm just plain stupid!!!

ACL doesn't give a rat about you, me or anyone else (we don't count anymore).... I got him all cheesed off and now he is back on his "unity" kick... Back to his "can't we all just get along, brothers?" garbage....

Just read more of his posts. ACL is a pompus ass in training. Give him a few more years and he will be just as big of a jackass as the General.

Every time I think about people like ACL, I conclude that they have simply lost perspective. I know of one guy who was probably the most pompus jackoff I have ever seen by the end of his time at ASA. I also know this guy was almost fired in his probationary year for being a complete disrespectful tool...

From cying his eyeballs out in the CPO to flying a "big plane" at DAL. A lot of people helped him out along the way-a lot of people who had a choice (perhaps they made the wrong chice, in hindsight.)

It would be nice to not see so many people lose perspective. The cry-baby I am thinking of is now living large and enjoying his times across the street, but it could have turned out very differently had some "pompus asses" handled his case back then.

-I'm sure plenty of people looked out for ACl back in the day, but darn if he cares now.

 

[USCtrojan]

I am absoulutely against any type of flow through agreement. It's never been a flow through, it's always been a flush down. With all due respect, no thank you.

Trojan

 

[sweptback]

I am absoulutely against any type of flow through agreement. It's never been a flow through, it's always been a flush down. With all due respect, no thank you.

Trojan

The only way I could possibly see a flow-through working:

All new hires at Delta come from participating regionals with a flow-through (no off the street hiring, period).
And then, the only pilots allowed to flow back are the ones that came from that company (ie, you flow up from ASA, you flow down to ASA, and only the number that flow up get to flow down). If you choose not to flow up, you don't lose your seat nor seniority to somebody flowing down.

It's a moot point, because there's no way that Delta would hire exclusively from their regionals. But until they do, a flow-through is DOA.

 

[crj567]

The only way I could possibly see a flow-through working:

All new hires at Delta come from participating regionals with a flow-through (no off the street hiring, period).
And then, the only pilots allowed to flow back are the ones that came from that company (ie, you flow up from ASA, you flow down to ASA, and only the number that flow up get to flow down). If you choose not to flow up, you don't lose your seat nor seniority to somebody flowing down.

It's a moot point, because there's no way that Delta would hire exclusively from their regionals. But until they do, a flow-through is DOA.

Couldn't have put it better myself....

 

[79%N1]

So because we are in the worst economy since the 30's, and every company on earth is cutting back for cost savings and survival, Delta included, and ASA is losing (ooops, I mean loosing) some block hours and airframes (that they traded for better airframes albeit at a net loss) and was forced to furlough some pilots recently - you believe ASA is going away in the near term???? Huh! In complete disregard for the operational improvements made by new management, and as Delta's largest regional partner you think ASA is going away? For what reason? Just take a breath. It will be OK. ASA is not going anywhere.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Read again. ASA will be one of the surviving five or six DCI carriers.

AS for CRJ567, I give up with you.

 

[JumpersAway]

So because we are in the worst economy since the 30's, and every company on earth is cutting back for cost savings and survival, Delta included, and ASA is losing (ooops, I mean loosing) some block hours and airframes (that they traded for better airframes albeit at a net loss) and was forced to furlough some pilots recently - you believe ASA is going away in the near term???? Huh! In complete disregard for the operational improvements made by new management, and as Delta's largest regional partner you think ASA is going away? For what reason? Just take a breath. It will be OK. ASA is not going anywhere.

Honestly, I don't believe that we are going away in the near term. I think it is going to be in the long term. ACL hit it right on- we'll make it the 20 years, it's after that it's in the air. Bottom line is this- six months is an eternity in this biz, so 20 years is unfathomable. Who knows, maybe we split from Delta, and fill the void with Skywest in some "Megalopolis" airline conglomerate to fill in where a major has caved and imploded.............Far out there, I know, or is it? For some odd reason, I just don't see Delta in partnership with ASA 25 years down the road.

In regard to ASA's near term- As I said, I believe we are in great shape for the near term. However, I feel we are going to be a vastly different airline in a couple of years. As Joe put it, the 50 is a "Dead man walking", and I fully expect a couple more 2/1 swaps to come down the pipe. With each deal we are more and more overstaffed, and downgrades will become more prominant. I don't expect an abundance of furloughs due to our no furlough clause.

One thing I can't figure out is why ASA and Comair seem to be bearing the brunt of the 50 seat cuts. Not that I want anything to happen to anyone else, but why isn't Pinnacle losing flying at the same rate we are? It seems as though Pinnacle is holding the status quo with no big hits or reductions.

 

[HoserASA]

The 2 for 1 deal is an absolutely horrible deal for everybody involved except Delta. I can't see why ASA/Skywest would continue to fall for it.

They have NO CHOICE! DAL calls the shots.

Hoser
Roll Tide!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

You are seeing the brunt of the cuts because of where you fly. DAL is an East Coast focused airline. OH and EV fly most of that flying. That is where they are cutting.
As for SKW, they are shifting to more SLC and less ATL flying. If you have been around ASA and DCI for more than two years, you know the way these things are.
Add to that, DAL owns all of OH's 50's and over 40 of EV's. That also makes it easier for them to cut those. I am sure you will see cuts at the FNWA connection carriers too.
Also there will more than likely be a few less DCI carriers in coming years. I know of a few contracts that will not be renewed. ASA is going to be around until their contract exprires. (if not longer)

 

[USCtrojan]

You are seeing the brunt of the cuts because of where you fly. DAL is an East Coast focused airline. OH and EV fly most of that flying. That is where they are cutting.
As for SKW, they are shifting to more SLC and less ATL flying. If you have been around ASA and DCI for more than two years, you know the way these things are.
Add to that, DAL owns all of OH's 50's and over 40 of EV's. That also makes it easier for them to cut those. I am sure you will see cuts at the FNWA connection carriers too.
Also there will more than likely be a few less DCI carriers in coming years. I know of a few contracts that will not be renewed. ASA is going to be around until their contract exprires. (if not longer)

ACL65,

I appreciate your candor and your information regarding ASA. I know you have a lot of inside contacts and certainly appreciate any and all information regarding the Airline Industry in general. However, you know and I know pretty well how flow-thru's work. They are only advantageous to those at the "Legacy" level for job protection. It's human nature to want protection, I understand that. Just not at my expense. Super-Seniority doesn't work well for me. Eagle is a great example of how a flow-thru would work, and while I can appreciate their decisions in creating it, I can't accept it--and never will.

Additionally, in the very near future, ASA will be contracting out with another Carrier. Delta will be an invaluable partner, but not the only one. People can get so myopic sometimes.

Trojan

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I agree that flows do not work. I am just telling you what you may be seeing from DALPA.
I much prefer the joint seniority list approach. Like I said, or tried to say with out being direct and to the point on what was coming, this is an easy way for DALPA to keep lower paying jobs off their contact, on a B scale, and away from their negotiating capital. I disagree with it on many levels. It is just what I hear as a possibility. There are many of us here that want the flying and pilots brought back to mainline. No matter what CRJ567 says.

 

[79%N1]

Honestly, I don't believe that we are going away in the near term. I think it is going to be in the long term. ACL hit it right on- we'll make it the 20 years, it's after that it's in the air. Bottom line is this- six months is an eternity in this biz, so 20 years is unfathomable. Who knows, maybe we split from Delta, and fill the void with Skywest in some "Megalopolis" airline conglomerate to fill in where a major has caved and imploded.............Far out there, I know, or is it? For some odd reason, I just don't see Delta in partnership with ASA 25 years down the road.

In regard to ASA's near term- As I said, I believe we are in great shape for the near term. However, I feel we are going to be a vastly different airline in a couple of years. As Joe put it, the 50 is a "Dead man walking", and I fully expect a couple more 2/1 swaps to come down the pipe. With each deal we are more and more overstaffed, and downgrades will become more prominant. I don't expect an abundance of furloughs due to our no furlough clause.

One thing I can't figure out is why ASA and Comair seem to be bearing the brunt of the 50 seat cuts. Not that I want anything to happen to anyone else, but why isn't Pinnacle losing flying at the same rate we are? It seems as though Pinnacle is holding the status quo with no big hits or reductions.

You guys are making predictions for 20 YEARS IN THE FUTURE?!?!?!?!?!?

Are you freakin' kidding me?! Things change in the airlines day to day....but to predict ASA is good for now, but 20 years down the road. Wow. Anyway, we all are entitled to our opinions. I suppose ASA could be gone in 20 years, but so could Delta, United, Mesa, or anyone (Mesa sucks). I'm just saying, I wouldn't form any negative opinions on ASA due to the happenings of today. This is a cyclical downturn for not only the Airlines, but for the entire World's economy. Things are receeding right now. ASA could come out of the downturn as the place to be.....or could go the way of the Dodo. Who knows. But, considering all things, I think ASA will be ok in 20 years, in whatever form.

 

[777forever]

.

Additionally, in the very near future, ASA will be contracting out with another Carrier. Delta will be an invaluable partner, but not the only one. People can get so myopic sometimes.

Trojan

Inside info?

 

[79%N1]

Inside info?

No, Just jibber jabber gobbledegook.

 

[JettBoii]

Triple 7; no offense but you spend way too much time posting on here. Pink Pony; check it out.

We are all Delta's little biotch.

Hoser you wanna go camping?