Where was ALPA?

[PCL_128]

There are 3200 pilots at my "new airline" that don't get it either.....


PHXFLYR

Don't worry, PHXFLYR, it's just a waiting game with the Easties. They'll be dying off soon, and then they'll be the minority. Then they'll get to see what it's like to be on the wrong side of tyranny of the majority.

 

[ualdriver]

Don't worry, PHXFLYR, it's just a waiting game with the Easties. They'll be dying off soon, and then they'll be the minority.

Man, I hope the AmWest guys see justice before then!

 

[AA717driver]

Ok. Guess I'm wrong.

So is AFSCME, SEIU, UAW... I see their ads all the time.

The public flies. The public is scared $h!tless of flying. They REALLY hope we have our stuff together. We can influence them.

But let's just keep the status quo and continue to come here complaining about lack of participation in the union and the ATA being so effective as a lobbying group for the airlines.

Enjoy.

TC

 

[Fubijaakr]

your saying alpo applied the pressure? Show me proof.

That's what the ALPA reps do at the daily IIC meeting...defend the pilots interests in the interpretation of the evidence.

Too bad you don't know how the nuts and bolts of accident investigations work.

 

[ualdriver]

Ok. Guess I'm wrong.

So is AFSCME, SEIU, UAW... I see their ads all the time.


TC

You kind of make my point with the above statements. You say that the AFSCME and the SEIU advertise. You see their ads "all the time," which means they must spend some serious $$ on advertising.

What percentage of the pilots on this forum even know what the AFSCME and the SEIU do or who they are, despite the advertisements you see "all the time?" What percentage of the pilots on this forum know each of the above mentioned organizations agenda despite the advertisements you see "all the time?" What percentage of the pilots on this forum even care about either of those organizations? What percentage of the pilots on this forum would care if the above groups were in contract negotiations and were demanding pay raises?

And pilots, as a group, are probably more educated and better read than the overall population and I bet 99% of the guys on this forum don't know or care about those organizations, despite all the advertising you claim they do. At least from my viewpoint, they don't seem like very effective dollars spent. I hope ALPA doesn't go down that same road.

And let's not get started on the UAW. Right or wrong, they could spend millions and millions and I doubt they'd garner much sympathy from the public.

 

[JungleJett]

How about keeping the info from hitting the street to being with? Why be REACTIVE when PROACTIVE works so much better.

How many news outlets recalled their comments? Already out there....too little too late.

 

[eaglesview]

Man, I hope the AmWest guys see justice before then!

Justice??? No credit for anytime spent on the property before furlough is justice. Chances are we are flying with the same f/o's at UAL ask them how they would feel about that, especially the ones that are going out the door for the second time. There are two sides to every story.

 

[spitfire1500]

The dog food? No, I'm saying that ALPA, the pilots' union, applied the pressure. You can believe it or not, but it's the truth.

I have to agree with PCL here I am not a big ALPA supporter but a few years back I was involved in an investigation on the systems group (5481). Without the advisers and help of ALPA national the investigation would have been a disaster. ALPA made sure that the crew was represented and defended them vigorously from the day of the accident right through to the hearing and final report. While those who were at fault wanted to deflect blame onto the crew. I can guarantee from experience that ALPA reps are in Buffalo and DC representing those crewmembers very aggressively.

 

[JungleJett]

Well at least the public and the airlines are even...the public does not care about the airlines and the airlines don't care about the public.

even steven....

 

[dc9guy]

No so fast little boy

PCL,
I am an "Eastie". I am not dying off anytime soon. If that is your desire, please let me know the time and place and I will be happy to meet with you. BTW, when many of us were walking the picket line, working at alpa headquarters, looking for work to support our families, etc, etc, you were in grade school (6 years old), mostly likely trying to figure out how not to wet your pants when the playground big boys picked on you. I would suggest that you get a real life and quit living in some fantasy world (ie Flightinfo.com, 9500+ posts). There is much more to life than your single-minded notion that alpa is the savior of the the airline industry.
Just my thoughts.

 

[pilotyip]

Does anyone still like flying airplanes?

 

[Lear70]

Sure. I love to fly.

I just don't like the schedule and the paycheck anymore... I'm making less now, adjusted for inflation, than I have since I was 25 in a King Air when I still lived at home and had no responsibilities, and I'm gone twice as much as any other job I've ever had.

If I got paid six figures (like I used to), it *MIGHT* offset the time away from home. Maybe. Or if I got paid this and was home every night in time to put the kids to bed and was able to wake up with them and put them on the bus to school before flying,,,

Don't know why that's so hard of a request to understand... Compensate us fairly and give us time off to have a life. What a concept.

 

[eaglesview]

PCL,
I am an "Eastie". I am not dying off anytime soon. If that is your desire, please let me know the time and place and I will be happy to meet with you. BTW, when many of us were walking the picket line, working at alpa headquarters, looking for work to support our families, etc, etc, you were in grade school (6 years old), mostly likely trying to figure out how not to wet your pants when the playground big boys picked on you. I would suggest that you get a real life and quit living in some fantasy world (ie Flightinfo.com, 9500+ posts). There is much more to life than your single-minded notion that alpa is the savior of the the airline industry.
Just my thoughts.

Perfect, well done!!

 

[pilotyip]

Consumers

Sure. I love to fly.

I just don't like the schedule and the paycheck anymore... I'm making less now, adjusted for inflation, than I have since I was 25 in a King Air when I still lived at home and had no responsibilities, and I'm gone twice as much as any other job I've ever had.

If I got paid six figures (like I used to), it *MIGHT* offset the time away from home. Maybe. Or if I got paid this and was home every night in time to put the kids to bed and was able to wake up with them and put them on the bus to school before flying,,,

Don't know why that's so hard of a request to understand... Compensate us fairly and give us time off to have a life. What a concept.

You sound unhappy? How can that be fixed? Do I read the kids are not important if I get paid more? If putting your kids to bed each night is the most important thing in your life, then you do not join the military or become an airline pilot. Life is too short for all the unhappiness I see on these sights. I have had a ball going through this career. Of course you know that story. This is still a great career

 

[imacdog]

Why do you care about focusing on the public? They don't matter. When push comes to shove, they'll care more about saving $0.99 on that next ticket. Wasting resources on advertising to the public is not a good plan.

Then why does ALPA take out full page ads in newspapers during contract negotiations?

 

[JungleJett]

PCL,
I am an "Eastie". I am not dying off anytime soon. If that is your desire, please let me know the time and place and I will be happy to meet with you. BTW, when many of us were walking the picket line, working at alpa headquarters, looking for work to support our families, etc, etc, you were in grade school (6 years old), mostly likely trying to figure out how not to wet your pants when the playground big boys picked on you. I would suggest that you get a real life and quit living in some fantasy world (ie Flightinfo.com, 9500+ posts). There is much more to life than your single-minded notion that alpa is the savior of the the airline industry.
Just my thoughts.

The dude bought his airline job to boot! He spouts off like he has been in the business since DC-3's and is personally trying to save the profession, a profession he was complicit in destroying. If he felt so strongly about ALPA, he would have gone to an ALPA carrier...but he chose not to. I find that hypocritical.


Spitfire....then why did ANY bogus info get out about the pilot and his actions? Why did ALPA NOT step up and keep them from smearing the guy? This investigation has been all but completed in the press and the speed at which they are releasing info is unreal.

 

[AA717driver]

Then why does ALPA take out full page ads in newspapers during contract negotiations?

dog--You're just muddying the waters. It's imperative we continue the same tactics that have been so successful and brought us to this point.

We mustn't upset the apple cart with any innovative thinking.

What was it Einstein said about 'repeating the same thing and expecting different results'?

TC

 

[ualdriver]

Justice??? No credit for anytime spent on the property before furlough is justice. Chances are we are flying with the same f/o's at UAL ask them how they would feel about that, especially the ones that are going out the door for the second time. There are two sides to every story.

I'm not sure what UAL's situation has to do with what I was talking about nor I am exactly sure what specifically you're referring to........

I'm talking about two groups of pilots agreeing to binding arbitration and one side doing everything in their power to get out of said arbitration because the results didn't suit their (unrealistic) desires. So when I'm talking about "justice," I'm talking about the end result of the litigation that is taking place right now that will hopefully compel both sides to honor the promises they made when they agreed to binding arbitration.

And I have ZERO desire to rehash the whole "binding arbitration" thing again, so don't bother.

 

[ualdriver]

Spitfire....then why did ANY bogus info get out about the pilot and his actions? Why did ALPA NOT step up and keep them from smearing the guy? This investigation has been all but completed in the press and the speed at which they are releasing info is unreal.

Because you guys have completely unrealistic expectations about what ALPA can and cannot do. ALPA doesn't walk into the halls of Congress and say, "These are the laws you are going to pass and this is how you're going to write them." ALPA doesn't walk into the NTSB's investigation and say, "this is the way you're going to conduct your investigation and what you're going to do and not do." ALPA doesn't walk into the boardroom at the airlines it represents and say, "this is the way you're going to run your company."

It doesn't work like that, yet every time something bad happens to us as professionals, particularly if it is an ALPA represented airline, it's "ALPA's fault." It's "ALPA's fault" that I took a paycut. It's "ALPA's fault" I lost my pension. It's "ALPA's fault" that my twice bankrupt company didn't get me date-of-hire seniority integration with another carrier. It's "ALPA's fault" that I got furloughed. It's "ALPA's fault that we retire at age 65 now." It's "ALPA's fault" that the NTSB said something we didn't like.

That's not how ALPA works, or any large organization for that matter. When you volunteer, when you pay your dues, etc., you do the best you can to INFLUENCE the world around you- the legislation in Congress, an accident invesitgation, you're management's behavior, and that's all you get. Sometimes it goes your way, and sometimes it doesn't.

So to answer you question, Junglejett, maybe the NTSB initially released the statement because maybe, just maybe, the NTSB runs its OWN investigation and doesn't clear everything they say or do through anyone else, including ALPA?

 

[JungleJett]

UAL..

Thats fine but lets be careful about making claims that ALPA will protect the pilots....maybe will be there to TRY and protect the pilots. Which in this case..did not.

ALPA is NOT the savior of this profession...pilots will save it. And pilots will sell each other out at every opportunity to get ahead.....until that stops, nothing will change. ALPA has too many masters and has lost its ability to represent the profession when it comes to QOL, pay, benefits...

Thanks for inventing (as some think) TCAS and color WX radar.....I am sure my banker thinks thats just great when he comes looking for his money.