Where was ALPA?

[AA717driver]

Yeah, I've been beating up on ALPA at AirTran and I'll take any opportunity to rough up my favorite union gofer, Rez but here's a perfect example of ALPA being MIA:

Sully gave our profession a huge boost with his comments about the future of aviation and his self-effacing denial that he did anything special. I had hoped we could capitalize on the incredible press the pilot profession received out of this.

Instead of hearing about the latest "drunken pilot", this was a golden opportunity (better than Blago's Senate seat, IMO) to right many of the misperceptions about the deterioration of our pay, retirement and working conditions since the 1990's.

What do we get? Silence. Nothing from ALPA, APA or any other independent union.

The unions should have had people on all the talk shows, cable news channels--even local news in the larger markets. The public was hungry--no, starving for information on how this miracle happened.

WE made it happen. Sully, to his credit, pitched us a hanging curve right out over the plate. It would have been like a 'roided up Bonds playing t-ball.

We didn't just swing and miss. We didn't even suit up.

We could have used our PAC money, MCF money--hell, take an assessment but get the ads out there on the networks, cable news, the USA Today, WSJ, Times. Just get our viewpoint in front of a malleable public.

I can't be the only one to have thought about this.

Where were the unions?

TC

 

[PCL_128]

Why do you care about focusing on the public? They don't matter. When push comes to shove, they'll care more about saving $0.99 on that next ticket. Wasting resources on advertising to the public is not a good plan.

 

[twepilot]

Where was alpo when the media was trying to hang the pilots in the BUF accident for flying with the autopilot?

RV

 

[PCL_128]

Where was alpo when the media was trying to hang the pilots in the BUF accident for flying with the autopilot?

RV

I'm glad you asked. Did you happen to notice that the NTSB held a press conference the day after they made that claim and retracted their statement that the pilots were disregarding company policy? Who do you think it was that jumped on the NTSB for misstating company policy? You think they would have retracted their statement if ALPA hadn't provided pressure? Think again.

 

[twepilot]

your saying alpo applied the pressure? Show me proof.

RV

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

your saying alpo applied the pressure? Show me proof.

RV

Will it lessen your hatred?

read this and then put it together....

http://www.ntsb.gov/speeches/sumwalt/rls070411.htm

Do you think ALPA has the attention of the NTSB?

 

[PCL_128]

your saying alpo applied the pressure? Show me proof.

RV

The dog food? No, I'm saying that ALPA, the pilots' union, applied the pressure. You can believe it or not, but it's the truth.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yeah, I've been beating up on ALPA at AirTran and I'll take any opportunity to rough up my favorite union gofer, Rez but here's a perfect example of ALPA being MIA:

Sully gave our profession a huge boost with his comments about the future of aviation and his self-effacing denial that he did anything special. I had hoped we could capitalize on the incredible press the pilot profession received out of this.

Instead of hearing about the latest "drunken pilot", this was a golden opportunity (better than Blago's Senate seat, IMO) to right many of the misperceptions about the deterioration of our pay, retirement and working conditions since the 1990's.

What do we get? Silence. Nothing from ALPA, APA or any other independent union.

The unions should have had people on all the talk shows, cable news channels--even local news in the larger markets. The public was hungry--no, starving for information on how this miracle happened.

WE made it happen. Sully, to his credit, pitched us a hanging curve right out over the plate. It would have been like a 'roided up Bonds playing t-ball.

We didn't just swing and miss. We didn't even suit up.

We could have used our PAC money, MCF money--hell, take an assessment but get the ads out there on the networks, cable news, the USA Today, WSJ, Times. Just get our viewpoint in front of a malleable public.

I can't be the only one to have thought about this.

Where were the unions?

TC

Another logic thought from you?

Sully is USAPA.... this is USAPA's sandbox....

Why aren't you asking where USAPA is? Should not USAPA be taking advantage of this....

So typical... blaming ALPA when they weren't at the party.....

If ALPA did jump on this PR parade, you would probably be chiding ALPA for trying to steal glory...


But hey its ok.... No one expects to win with haters....

Anything else?

 

[PCL_128]

Why aren't you asking where USAPA is? Should not USAPA be taking advantage of this....

A USAToday ad costs over $100k. One ad would bankrupt them. :laugh:

 

[twepilot]

I can take that A and put it in another word. How about ***********************************.

RV

 

[twepilot]

still no proof huh rez.

RV

 

[Bringupthebird]

A USAToday ad costs over $100k. One ad would bankrupt them. :laugh:

You mean one MORE ad, don't you?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

still no proof huh rez.

RV

I know..... and to think if I did... I would have you at hello....

 

[thruthemurk]

your saying alpo applied the pressure? Show me proof.

RV

No, it was the management defending the pilots. No, wait -it was the flight attendants, no the FAA!!

Who do you think it was?

Get a clue - noone else is on your side. If you don't like the job they are doing improve on it.

 

[AA717driver]

Sully is USAPA.... this is USAPA's sandbox....

Why aren't you asking where USAPA is? Should not USAPA be taking advantage of this....

So typical... blaming ALPA when they weren't at the party.....

If ALPA did jump on this PR parade, you would probably be chiding ALPA for trying to steal glory...


But hey its ok.... No one expects to win with haters....

Anything else?

RTFQ, Rez. I said ALL the unions were AWOL.

PCL--The public IS our audience. What has Congress done lately? $100k for a USA Today article? That doesn't even get you 15 min. with the junior Sen. from Indiana. (Who, BTW, is married to a woman sitting on F500 BOD's who can outspend the airline unions 100-to-1.)

The public is our only option now.

I've always claimed that the union leaders are only concerned with their continued participation in the D.C. cocktail circuit.

Prove me wrong.

TC

 

[ualdriver]

PCL--The public IS our audience. What has Congress done lately? $100k for a USA Today article? That doesn't even get you 15 min. with the junior Sen. from Indiana. (Who, BTW, is married to a woman sitting on F500 BOD's who can outspend the airline unions 100-to-1.)

The public is our only option now.

Do you really think the public cares? Do you really think spending big $$ on a public ad campaign is going to get the public behind a UAL 777 F/O, for example, pulling in 6 figures when "the public" is taking pay cuts, wage freezes, and are very concerned about their current jobs? People making 6 figure salaries (or close to it) don't get much sympathy in the general public. It's a waste of time and money I think.

Further, even if ALPA started such an ad campaign, probably costing millions of dollars if it was done right, how long do you think it would be before countless threads are started about how ALPA is wasting dues money on USA Today ads? Before our reps are getting tons of phone calls from tirading pilots threatening to leave ALPA if they don't stop wasting their money? Do you think, a guy like Glenn Tilton, with his track record and hatred of our pilot group, is going to cave when our contract becomes ammendable in DEC '09 because of public pressure? I wish.

I've always claimed that the union leaders are only concerned with their continued participation in the D.C. cocktail circuit.

Prove me wrong.

TC

What is he supposed to do to "prove you wrong?" Should he get Prater to call you up and say, "I'm not concerned with continued participation in the D.C. cocktail circuit?" Give me a break. Even if you received such a phone call, you'd probably just say he was lying to you. You hate ALPA, you love taking jabs at us, and nothing will change that.

 

[PCL_128]

Well said, ualdriver. Some of these guys just don't get it.

 

[Dude]

Good luck.

 

[PHXFLYR]

....................................................

 

[PHXFLYR]

Well said, ualdriver. Some of these guys just don't get it.

There are 3200 pilots at my "new airline" that don't get it either.....


PHXFLYR

 

[PCL_128]

There are 3200 pilots at my "new airline" that don't get it either.....


PHXFLYR

Don't worry, PHXFLYR, it's just a waiting game with the Easties. They'll be dying off soon, and then they'll be the minority. Then they'll get to see what it's like to be on the wrong side of tyranny of the majority.

 

[ualdriver]

Don't worry, PHXFLYR, it's just a waiting game with the Easties. They'll be dying off soon, and then they'll be the minority.

Man, I hope the AmWest guys see justice before then!

 

[AA717driver]

Ok. Guess I'm wrong.

So is AFSCME, SEIU, UAW... I see their ads all the time.

The public flies. The public is scared $h!tless of flying. They REALLY hope we have our stuff together. We can influence them.

But let's just keep the status quo and continue to come here complaining about lack of participation in the union and the ATA being so effective as a lobbying group for the airlines.

Enjoy.

TC

 

[Fubijaakr]

your saying alpo applied the pressure? Show me proof.

That's what the ALPA reps do at the daily IIC meeting...defend the pilots interests in the interpretation of the evidence.

Too bad you don't know how the nuts and bolts of accident investigations work.

 

[ualdriver]

Ok. Guess I'm wrong.

So is AFSCME, SEIU, UAW... I see their ads all the time.


TC

You kind of make my point with the above statements. You say that the AFSCME and the SEIU advertise. You see their ads "all the time," which means they must spend some serious $$ on advertising.

What percentage of the pilots on this forum even know what the AFSCME and the SEIU do or who they are, despite the advertisements you see "all the time?" What percentage of the pilots on this forum know each of the above mentioned organizations agenda despite the advertisements you see "all the time?" What percentage of the pilots on this forum even care about either of those organizations? What percentage of the pilots on this forum would care if the above groups were in contract negotiations and were demanding pay raises?

And pilots, as a group, are probably more educated and better read than the overall population and I bet 99% of the guys on this forum don't know or care about those organizations, despite all the advertising you claim they do. At least from my viewpoint, they don't seem like very effective dollars spent. I hope ALPA doesn't go down that same road.

And let's not get started on the UAW. Right or wrong, they could spend millions and millions and I doubt they'd garner much sympathy from the public.

 

[JungleJett]

How about keeping the info from hitting the street to being with? Why be REACTIVE when PROACTIVE works so much better.

How many news outlets recalled their comments? Already out there....too little too late.

 

[eaglesview]

Man, I hope the AmWest guys see justice before then!

Justice??? No credit for anytime spent on the property before furlough is justice. Chances are we are flying with the same f/o's at UAL ask them how they would feel about that, especially the ones that are going out the door for the second time. There are two sides to every story.

 

[spitfire1500]

The dog food? No, I'm saying that ALPA, the pilots' union, applied the pressure. You can believe it or not, but it's the truth.

I have to agree with PCL here I am not a big ALPA supporter but a few years back I was involved in an investigation on the systems group (5481). Without the advisers and help of ALPA national the investigation would have been a disaster. ALPA made sure that the crew was represented and defended them vigorously from the day of the accident right through to the hearing and final report. While those who were at fault wanted to deflect blame onto the crew. I can guarantee from experience that ALPA reps are in Buffalo and DC representing those crewmembers very aggressively.

 

[JungleJett]

Well at least the public and the airlines are even...the public does not care about the airlines and the airlines don't care about the public.

even steven....

 

[dc9guy]

No so fast little boy

PCL,
I am an "Eastie". I am not dying off anytime soon. If that is your desire, please let me know the time and place and I will be happy to meet with you. BTW, when many of us were walking the picket line, working at alpa headquarters, looking for work to support our families, etc, etc, you were in grade school (6 years old), mostly likely trying to figure out how not to wet your pants when the playground big boys picked on you. I would suggest that you get a real life and quit living in some fantasy world (ie Flightinfo.com, 9500+ posts). There is much more to life than your single-minded notion that alpa is the savior of the the airline industry.
Just my thoughts.