East vs West, The Saga Continues

[Flybywire44]

Who on here knows about the East side's LOA 93 that was written in 2004? I'm gathering that this LOA goes into effect at the end of this year or mid 2010. When that happens the East pilots will retro back to their old 2004 pay rates.

Supposedly the company is approaching USAPA to get a new contract in place, but given LOA 93 its in the better interest of the East to not do anything but go back to 200k pay scales for 75/76/a330 left seat drivers.

This LOA will encourage the company to be more active in contract negotions while USAPA may choose to choose legal remedise in the courts for "verification."

East pilots also have $10,000 payments coming in 2010 and 2011... Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Lampshade]

When that happens the East pilots will retro back to their old 2004 pay rates.

Where is this written? answer, nowhere. LOA93 becomes unfrozen(amendable date 12-31-2009) and a new contract can be negotiated. USAPA is spreading rumors to give some of the dumbbells hope of a a big payday if they're patient, because current contract negotiations are going nowhere. You need to find a better information source than Easties.

 

[FR8mastr]

I heard USAPA says the sun rises in the East!!!


just curious to see how that statement will be slammed.

 

[Carl S.]

Just like all the Easties who say their contract "Expires" at the end of this year. I wish this was true, then the West could go up to East old rates. LOA 93 POS contract only becomes amendable at year's end. USAPA has no leverage!

 

[reepicheep]

I'd put the chances of the pay raise right up there with "More new jets than God can count."

 

[Crzipilot]

I know, I know, the west knows best. But I would read the language a little bit, it does raise some interesting questions. If the pay rates were to float until a new agreement was negotiated, why would there be a termination date on the pay freeze?? Whereas everything else in LOA 93 is simply amendable, the pay rates end.

The 10k payments. Well that remains to be seen. There are two, I believe 35 Million dollar payments that must be made, and there hasn't been a decision on how to divide that up. 1st payment 1/1/10 and 2nd 1/1/11. I'm sure the east will be very gracious again and vote to include the west with these payments (as they did their profit sharing monies) seeing how the west supported pay parity

As to the pay rates, I'm not a lawyer, your not a lawyer, neither of us have the negoitating notes, nor the intent behind the language, so neither of us knows what will happen end of year.

 

[Flybywire44]

The East gave the West part of their profit sharing right off the bad. Crzipilot is right, they're not going to give the West anything else only to be disrespected.

 

[TWA Dude]

The East gave the West part of their profit sharing right off the bad.

That was before the East broke off the joint negotiations so save your self-righteousness.

Crzipilot is right, they're not going to give the West anything else only to be disrespected.

Likewise, I'm sure.

 

[iflyhigh]

I can guarantee you that if the Pilots on the East revert back to old wages, the company will be in court fighting it.

They did this with the mechanics contract and won.

Never assume a clause in a contract is a good as gold. The company always finds a way out.

As far as pay parity, believe it or not the West wanted the East on equal pay when the merger commenced, management did not. This is there only bargaining tool and management is not going to give it up.

 

[BeCareful!]

Reference the $35 million: do west pilots actually think they should have a share in that money, since it's part of a concessionary agreement they had no part in?

Oh....wait, I forgot....of course they do! But what did I expect from a group that can't say a simple "thank you" for the profit sharing. Which is funnier still since post merger your bases don't actually produce profits.

Called scheduling lately? I'm going to suggest a change to the automated message: "For PHX and LAS, press one. For all revenue producing bases, press two."

 

[BeCareful!]

I can guarantee you that if the Pilots on the East revert back to old wages, the company will be in court fighting it.

They did this with the mechanics contract and won.

Never assume a clause in a contract is a good as gold. The company always finds a way out.

I agree that LOA 93 appears to have no clear snapback. It's yet another reason in a VERY LONG LIST OF REASONS that ALPA is GONE!!!!!!!!!
It takes a lot more than a fatally flawed arbitration reached in a corrupt process with faulty lists to remove ALPA.....the ousting had been brewing for years.

 

[Crzipilot]

As far as pay parity, believe it or not the West wanted the East on equal pay when the merger commenced, management did not. This is there only bargaining tool and management is not going to give it up.

Interesting, I don't remember the west side, really pressing really really hard for pay parity during the negotiations of the TA, which I think is where it started. I could be wrong, but whichever. I do remember a snippet about parker saying pay parity could only be achieved if the west agreed to it, and that the west had denied that. So in essence you put in place your own whipsaw.
Smart.... For what. 7.00/hr? wow.


Oh yeah, no where did I saw it was definate that the rates went back. I just simply said it looked interesting and could be a possiblity. Do I have my personal budget setup regarding it??? No, but it would be nice to get a approx. 20.00/hr or more pay raise, Quite a bit better price increase than the one the West is offering to buy the NIC........

And as BeCareful mentions. Yup... the old ALPA contract language (unfortunately for the time being USAPA will prob. use close to the same type, but at least there is a chance for Change here) Was told at one point that ALPA likes the grey language, as it gives them the chance to grieve/arbitrate contractual items that don't go their way. Well excuse me....when there are over 300+ grievances unsettled, and a whopping what??? 20 maybe arbitrations settled a year. So it's pretty obvious the alpa lawyers that write the contract language (prob. in cahoots with Harrison Ford) like it gray as it gives a bit job security. How much do those Alpa lawyers bring end "defending" our contracts? Nice little sum, not having to run their own firm, beat the bushes for clients, etc etc etc.........

 

[Lampshade]

Interesting, I don't remember the west side, really pressing really really hard for pay parity during the negotiations of the TA, which I think is where it started. I could be wrong, but whichever. I do remember a snippet about parker saying pay parity could only be achieved if the west agreed to it, and that the west had denied that. So in essence you put in place your own whipsaw.
Smart.... For what. 7.00/hr? wow.

The West supported it and even past a resolution supporting pay parity, you got some bad info cowboy.


Oh yeah, no where did I saw it was definate that the rates went back. I just simply said it looked interesting and could be a possiblity. Do I have my personal budget setup regarding it??? No, but it would be nice to get a approx. 20.00/hr or more pay raise, Quite a bit better price increase than the one the West is offering to buy the NIC........

The company proposal raised the Captain rates over $20 an hour

And as BeCareful mentions. Yup... the old ALPA contract language (unfortunately for the time being USAPA will prob. use close to the same type, but at least there is a chance for Change here) Was told at one point that ALPA likes the grey language, as it gives them the chance to grieve/arbitrate contractual items that don't go their way. Well excuse me....when there are over 300+ grievances unsettled, and a whopping what??? 20 maybe arbitrations settled a year. So it's pretty obvious the alpa lawyers that write the contract language (prob. in cahoots with Harrison Ford) like it gray as it gives a bit job security. How much do those Alpa lawyers bring end "defending" our contracts? Nice little sum, not having to run their own firm, beat the bushes for clients, etc etc etc.........Cool, another east conspiracy theory.

enjoy LOA93

 

[Lampshade]

I agree that LOA 93 appears to have no clear snapback. It's yet another reason in a VERY LONG LIST OF REASONS that ALPA is GONE!!!!!!!!!
It takes a lot more than a fatally flawed arbitration reached in a corrupt process with faulty lists to remove ALPA.....the ousting had been brewing for years.

Did you forget that you voted for it?

 

[Crzipilot]

Actually we didn't vote for it.

Oh and secondly, that 20.00 pay raise was for f/o's. Capts are a bit higher....over 30.00/hr raise.... So once again with your industry leading contract, your uhmmm...quite a bit behind the times....

And ya, enjoying LOA 93, not too bad.....

You guys enjoy your industry leading contract, because the whole world knows your the Shniizzzllee.....


As to the conspiracy theory. Have you ever been involved with negotiations, or dealt with the lawyers and such from Harrison and Ford???? Hmmm Well I have, and I have at least a little glimpse as to some of what goes on. It's pretty disgusting...