East vs West, The Saga Continues

[johnnyb]

Just like all the Easties who say their contract "Expires" at the end of this year.

A little reading of the LOA would have been helpful for you.

LOA 84 contained a pay reduction of 5% for 2005, 0% for 2006 and raises of 2% in each of 2007 and 2008.

LOA 93 froze those rates at the 2005 level from 5/04 through 12/31/09.

The freeze only applies to the pay rates:

It is the rest of the document (rigs, vacation etc) that becomes amendable on 12/31/09.

 

[Crzipilot]

OH yeah, quick little check. The west supported Pay parity, yes they did, although I believe attached to that little deal was a seniority list profer, that was delivered in PIT, If I remember. This wonderful profer, was WORSE than the NIC award. Upon rejection of that the West pulled their support of pay parity. (This was before the arbitration thank you, )

Pulled from ALPA website:

Two years ago (somewhere around 2005) the West MEC attempted to get the East MEC to trade seniority in a
prenup seniority integration deal (worse than even the eventual Nicolau award,
believe it or not!) for their support of our goal of reaching pay parity with them in the
Transition Agreement. When we refused to make that trade, they withdrew their
support for eliminating B-Scale on this property, and so notified Doug Parker.



Sheesh, what am I thinking. The west pilots are the angels of the industry. They have for years upheld the highest standards of contractural terms. Highest Standards of Unionism, They have never done anything wrong, for they are simply and completely trampled by the big bad bully East pilots whoe are orgres sitting under a bridge.....

hahahaha

 

[Lampshade]

For the daydreamers on the East read your contract you agreed to. The "freeze current rates" were the pre LOA93 rates (no pay increases) and the reduce rates as frozen by 18% is your new pay rate. There is no mention on snapback or other term. All the CA's are maxed on the scale so no increase, the fo's that are not maxed out on the scale might get $2 or $3 increase if the rate is unfrozen. Enjoy LOA93



Effective Date: This Agreement shall be effective upon ratification as determined by the Association and the signature of the Association’s President.

Duration: Amendable date December 31, 2009.
Other terms of 1998Agreement, as amended:
Other than as specifically modified in these documents, all terms and conditions of the ALPA-US Airways Collective Bargaining
Agreement effective January 1, 1998, as amended, shall remain in full force and effect.

Revisions to Hourly
Pay Rates:
The rates of pay specified in Section 3 of the Agreement, as modified by the Restructuring Agreement, will be revised as follows:
1. Freeze current rates effective 5/01/04 through 12/31/09.
2. Reduce rates as frozen by 18%.
3. Reduce International pay override, as stated in Section
3(F) and Section 18(C), by 18% for transoceanic trips;
eliminate international override for non-transoceanic trips.
4. Pay all flying at day rate

 

[Carl S.]

I love the East's version of giving the West profit sharing! Read contract 2000, we have a "me too" clause to profit sharing from any union group. We were getting it no matter how you spin it. How many checks did the East get prior to the merger? I believe as many as the West, 0. We are one pilot group now, we want our cut of the 70 million asap!!!!

 

[Crzipilot]

There is no mention on snapback or other term. All the CA's are maxed on the scale so no increase, the fo's that are not maxed out on the scale might get $2 or $3 increase if the rate is unfrozen. Enjoy LOA93



Effective Date: This Agreement shall be effective upon ratification as determined by the Association and the signature of the Association’s President.

Duration: Amendable date December 31, 2009.
Other terms of 1998Agreement, as amended:
Other than as specifically modified in these documents, all terms and conditions of the ALPA-US Airways Collective Bargaining
Agreement effective January 1, 1998, as amended, shall remain in full force and effect.

Revisions to Hourly
Pay Rates:
The rates of pay specified in Section 3 of the Agreement, as modified by the Restructuring Agreement, will be revised as follows:
1. Freeze current rates effective 5/01/04 through 12/31/09.
2. Reduce rates as frozen by 18%.
3. Reduce International pay override, as stated in Section
3(F) and Section 18(C), by 18% for transoceanic trips;
eliminate international override for non-transoceanic trips.
4. Pay all flying at day rate

Yup, believe I posted that a few months ago. I read it. And as I say, it depends on the intent and the negotiating notes, which neither I nor you know what they say.
1. It says to Freeze the current rates (LOA 84 rates I believe) effective 5/04 to 12/10.

2. Reduce these rates by 18%.

Ok.. So at 12/10, these rates would revert to unfrozen....right??? Yup, sounds like it. Now you have to goto LOA 84 to find out what the increases were supposed to be.

3. Next step is, would those increases be from the LOA 84 rates or the LOA 93 rates? Company will say 93, Usapa 84. It gets grieved, it goes to arbitration, etc etc.


But within those negotiating notes, one has to wonder if it says in there. Giving temporary relief for pay, freeze the rates and cut by 18% until '10, then rates are lifted.

Either way, if it's simply ther percentage increases which are unfrozen, I find it hard to follow your logic that a capt at TOS would not get an increase if there are 3% yearly increases in there??? TOS would move 3% every year, compounded....

 

[Crzipilot]

I don't know, what was the time line of the Certs being merged and you getting your profit sharing check??? Besides still seperate ops....and the 70million, sorry that's not a profit sharing, that's a repayment

 

[johnnyb]

we want our cut of the 70 million asap!!!!

Well Carl you should be familiar with the phrase

" You'll get nothing and like it " !

 

[rajflyboy]

hopefully the East will win and the callsign will be changed back to "USAIR" instead of Cacti

 

[BeCareful!]

Sheesh, what am I thinking. The west pilots are the angels of the industry. They have for years upheld the highest standards of contractural terms. Highest Standards of Unionism, They have never done anything wrong, for they are simply and completely trampled by the big bad bully East pilots whoe are orgres sitting under a bridge.....

hahahaha

I'd guess there are a lot of Ansett and former Wien Air pilots who would strongly disagree with this!

 

[Crzipilot]

I'd guess there are a lot of Ansett and former Wien Air pilots who would strongly disagree with this!

You don't say???? And exactly what would that be regarding?????? Hmmmmmmmmmmm......

Ahh that's right, most on these boards probably weren't around there then. See they are on their second career here, and got into flying late. They were able to jump on the band wagon with the RJ though, and make that transition to Mesa Grande.....the promised land. Endless Aircraft deliveries, and money coming out of their ears, UNTIL..... the easties came and took it away.

 

[Lampshade]

Yup, believe I posted that a few months ago. I read it. And as I say, it depends on the intent and the negotiating notes, which neither I nor you know what they say.
1. It says to Freeze the current rates (LOA 84 rates I believe) effective 5/04 to 12/10.

2. Reduce these rates by 18%.

Ok.. So at 12/10, these rates would revert to unfrozen....right??? Yup, sounds like it. Now you have to goto LOA 84 to find out what the increases were supposed to be.

3. Next step is, would those increases be from the LOA 84 rates or the LOA 93 rates? Company will say 93, Usapa 84. It gets grieved, it goes to arbitration, etc etc.


.

LOA 84 is about "modified reserve system" so I don't know what your are talking about.

 

[abefly]

You don't say???? And exactly what would that be regarding?????? Hmmmmmmmmmmm......

Ahh that's right, most on these boards probably weren't around there then. See they are on their second career here, and got into flying late. They were able to jump on the band wagon with the RJ though, and make that transition to Mesa Grande.....the promised land. Endless Aircraft deliveries, and money coming out of their ears, UNTIL..... the easties came and took it away.

Keep holding on to your wet dreams! Judge wake sees right through your so called union and their shady lawyer. For now enjoy your seat and enjoy the time you spend with your family. Justice will prevail. It is just going to take time. So keep on trucking. Im sure you will come up with some smart a** remark, but when its all said and done everyone in the industry knows what a piece of sheit union that USAPA is and that they will never achieve anything. Read the court transcripts not the USAPA Spin updates. Peace!

 

[Crzipilot]

LOA 84 is about "modified reserve system" so I don't know what your are talking about.

Uhmmm...wellllll if you knew how to read and use a mouse. You would see that there is LOA 84, and next to it is LOA 84 Arbitrator's decision. Click on the actual LOA and you'll see.

thank you....

 

[Crzipilot]

Yup, Judge Wake, it seems is over both sets of Lawyers. Seems he was a bit perturbed at some of the Depositions the west wanted. Something with that long laundry list, there is no way for this to be a speedy trial???

What about the latest. Pulling out of your request for a jury trial, yet requestion compensatory damages??? Guess that wasn't too smart of a move. Further delay the trial. How long will it take to seat a jury????

Ohhhh...I'm sorry. Where's my head again. It's a "West" piloto I'm talking to. All knowing and All well. I shall bow down to you ...et al.....

 

[abefly]

Yup, Judge Wake, it seems is over both sets of Lawyers. Seems he was a bit perturbed at some of the Depositions the west wanted. Something with that long laundry list, there is no way for this to be a speedy trial???

What about the latest. Pulling out of your request for a jury trial, yet requestion compensatory damages??? Guess that wasn't too smart of a move. Further delay the trial. How long will it take to seat a jury????

Ohhhh...I'm sorry. Where's my head again. It's a "West" piloto I'm talking to. All knowing and All well. I shall bow down to you ...et al.....

Its fine, I have nothing but time.... and you dont need to bow down, just raise the gear and talk on the radios when we tell you too!