GPAC Is Dead and Illegitimate?

[Diesel]

At the end of the day, you're going to be subject matter experts in how pilots handle things on the road on a day-to-day basis. You're going to be there to answer questions but that's not the way you've come across to a lot of pilot on the road. I just ran into one of your guys that's been at NJI for a long time. He seemed like a great guy and he told us that there were many, just like him, that are still confused of GPAC's role.

I'll have to make this quick my flight is boarding soon but maybe I can shed some light.

GPAC will be in an advisory roll to help along NJASAP in understanding the needs and the wants of the NJI pilots. Who better to help NJASAP understand what is more important for the the NJI pilots than those that are actually on the line. Especially those that have worked for both sides of the fence. There are a lot of things I didn't understand till I came here.

My view on this is simple. We should do everything we can to make sure the line pilots have a voice. Is that a bad thing? Nope. Pretty much everything is set in stone but there are small QOL details that can affect this pilot group for a long time coming.

NJASAP have accepted GPAC with open arms because they know that they need the information that it can provide when it comes down to put everything in motion.

People keep thinking there is something sinister going on. I truely don't believe that is the case but I can see how people think that because only a few people have put their names to some communications. This will/has to change so that we as pilots are all on the same page.

Here is my simple view. If it can't hurt and it means another set of eyes watching the process what is the big deal?

 

[flyjetspeed]

Just sent a message to GPAC informing them of my intention to NOT vote!


I have only flown with a handful of these guys and cannot claim to know any of them well, with a few exceptions and those are the guys that I inadvertently nominated.

Early on I sent in 4 names that I stated I would trust to speak for me. Now they are on the so called list! I have attempted to correct that error and hope the names are removed if I was the only one doing the nominating. If not I am going to call each of them and apologize for the mistake.

Unless GPAC comes clean and each nominee is identified as willing to serve AND introduces himself AND expresses WHY he should be elected I have NO interest in legitimizing the effort! I hope this all happens because I DO support the idea of having someone to speak for the line pilots as the few small details are ironed out prior to the final integration.

 

[FL510GV]

Wow, this discussion has taken an interesting turn. I thought it was about adding some transparency to the process and/or how many NJI pilots have joined the GPAC effort?

GrummanFan:
1. Did you get the number of pilots that have joined GPAC from the GPAC?
2. I am disappointed in your assessment of UtahMonty. He offered to talk you, privately on the phone, and you threw dirty in his face? You admitted you don't even know him, why not call him? I read his offer as a peace offering.

 

[G200_PILOT]

I'll have to make this quick my flight is boarding soon but maybe I can shed some light.

GPAC will be in an advisory roll to help along NJASAP in understanding the needs and the wants of the NJI pilots. Who better to help NJASAP understand what is more important for the the NJI pilots than those that are actually on the line. Especially those that have worked for both sides of the fence. There are a lot of things I didn't understand till I came here.

My view on this is simple. We should do everything we can to make sure the line pilots have a voice. Is that a bad thing? Nope. Pretty much everything is set in stone but there are small QOL details that can affect this pilot group for a long time coming.

NJASAP have accepted GPAC with open arms because they know that they need the information that it can provide when it comes down to put everything in motion.

People keep thinking there is something sinister going on. I truely don't believe that is the case but I can see how people think that because only a few people have put their names to some communications. This will/has to change so that we as pilots are all on the same page.

Here is my simple view. If it can't hurt and it means another set of eyes watching the process what is the big deal?

G, I can understand why we need something like GPAC around to assist in the transition but with all the "elections" and "voting?" Elections for what? A guy like you would be perfect for what GPAC's role should be.

Look, the way I see it is that for years, certain things have remained a mystery as to how things are done at NJI. Not on purpose, just because it didn't matter. Now that both sides are coming together, those mysteries need to be figured out. A guy like yourself that's been on both sides of the fence would be a great guy for the job. You know how it's done here as well as over there.

Can I vote for you??????:0

 

[Hogprint]

Gruman Fan Posted:

I was told that the NJASAP bylaws don’t even give NJI pilots the right to run for office or hold and positions until they have been in the union for 2 years.

GF, I don't think this is true. In fact I'm certain it's hearsay. That popped up on this forum and another as a proposed guideline, but that isn't in writing. I did go through the bylaws and can't find it.

I encourage everyone not to spread disinformation during this integration. Good luck and see you on the line.

 

[Diesel]

HAHA i appreciate the vote of confidence but I truely don't believe I will win. Those that aren't interested in making sure their voice is heard don't cruise messageboards and believe the world will be alright if they don't stir the pot.

I believe discussion is good ideas flow and minds sometimes get changed. If not your opinion is at least out there.

I go back to my original point, "what does it hurt". There are so many things that I would have never understood unless I worked for both companies and that I believe that without that ability to see both sides of the fence a lot of misconceptions out there are brought on by lack of information.

Will GPAC do any good? I have no idea. I would be able to at least give the pilots the straight scoop. If that matches managments same information then hey you get double the information for half the price.

 

[UtahMonty]

For Gruman Fan
(quotations are your comments)

“I also informed them if they release my name as a GPAC supporter to anyone other than NJASAP, I’d sue them” So, you are going to sue an organization with no organization, no staff, no money. That will be fun to watch. Lawyers are going to line up at your door to get in on that action! But when you say it we know you are really a serious person. Throwing some scare factor into discussions always makes it seem important.

Thanks for finally saying something in public about what it is that the gpac supporters are angry about. We can all throw stones about Okatie’s misstatements over the years. Do you believe they were made with bad intention? Or were they made as a result of the best information they had at the time? We all should have seen the inevitable after the 2005 CBA and the influx of union pilots to the I side…but we didn’t. Bad on all of us. We all wonder why so many Okatie managers stood in front of the room so many times saying things which turned out to be wrong. It happens. Life can sometimes deliver lemons. Either we make lemonade and move on, or put the juice in your eye each morning so you have something to cry about. There are many of us who trust the folks who made this company great to continue making great decisions. Their past mistakes were not fatal for anyone. They are just aggravating. Until you have worked in a busy headquarters for a few years, you have no idea what it is like and what the mountains of problems are.

“Its not that I don’t trust Bill Noe, but there are things that must be done that he has no authority or influence to achieve.” This statement is so far out of your purview it is embarrassing to even address it. Since you have worked here a huge 16 months we are sure you have the complete and total knowledge of how everything works in Okatie and you have complete insight on how to integrate work groups

“The mere issue of local representation of NJI pilots through NJASAP stewards on our Operating Certificate should be enough for any NJI pilot to support GPAC. Does anyone honestly believe that Okatie Management is going to sit down with NJASAP and determine who amongst our group should be a union steward? Come on get real. I was told that the NJASAP bylaws don’t even give NJI pilots the right to run for office or hold and positions until they have been in the union for 2 years. Do you think Okatie is going to have that changed? No way! How is Okatie Management going to determine or pick who among us is best suited to work on the union safety committee, the pro standards committee, etc?” Damm good questions. But you know what, we are all smart guys and gals and can figure it out. If your hearsay words are correct it sounds like the bylaws may already answer some of the dilemma. If the laws say two years…well we wait two years. No use crying about something we have no influence over. We will figure it out.

“PS. Utah Mouthy… I wont be calling you because you have lost all credibility with me and I never even met you. I noticed you have been a member of flightinfo for two years now, and only 2 posts. That spells “Company Mole” or “Lurker” in Internet sign language.” Do you really need to call names…and you won’t take a phone call? This is a real shame. We all have life experiences to share. Information is good. More information is real good. Find an open mind to folks who disagree with you and you will be a better person. We don’t have to agree, and probably won’t. But name calling is a last resort for someone who won’t hold an intelligent discussion. Since you took time to write it down, why is the number of posts important? I see you have 33 posts. Does that make your words better than anyone else? And by the way, flightinfo will be contacting you ref breaking their rules and releasing a name. It is a problem.

Phone calls and notes to me this week are all from people who are worried about a group of pilots claiming they represent all of us. The worry is the reps will be too radical and will ultimately inject poisonous debate into the effort and hurt much more than they help. There are scenarios which you have not dreamed of which could be bad for the I side guys. If your words are indicators of the GPAC feeling, those concerns may be valid.

Diesel asked the question, “If it can’t hurt and it means another set of eyes watching the process what is the big deal.” The hurt can be caused by some with the wrong agenda. Retaliation is not a good driving force.

 

[BeeDubya]

Gruman Fan Posted:



GF, I don't think this is true. In fact I'm certain it's hearsay. That popped up on this forum and another as a proposed guideline, but that isn't in writing. I did go through the bylaws and can't find it.

The current NJASAP bylaws require candidates for the Executive Board to be continuous Active or Associate members for 24 months (see Article IV, Section 6(b)). The only requirement for participation in committees or for membership on the Steward's Council is approval by the Executive Board.

 

[Diesel]

Diesel asked the question, “If it can’t hurt and it means another set of eyes watching the process what is the big deal.” The hurt can be caused by some with the wrong agenda. Retaliation is not a good driving force.

Now I'm confused... where do you get this stuff. What wrong agenda you've already said that GPAC will have no power but now there is power to create an agenda and take down the company? Which is it?

GPAC is serving as an advisory role with NJASAP. The election is to make sure that the pilots best choose those that they feel can help NJASAP the best. You know in the democratic fashion? So everybody gets a voice.

 

[jenex]

GPACs influence will be very limited. They have no funding and no recognizable structure. This integration( AKA assimilation) will be managed by NJASAP. They have funding and orginization. There Union has absolutely no responsibility regarding NJI pilots at this time, whether there is GPAC or not. NJI pilots will be subject to what management and the union and have already agreed on. The LOA carries weight and not much else!

 

[Hogprint]

The current NJASAP bylaws require candidates for the Executive Board to be continuous Active or Associate members for 24 months (see Article IV, Section 6(b)). The only requirement for participation in committees or for membership on the Steward's Council is approval by the Executive Board.

Good catch BeeDub. I must have skipped over it, damn download!

I retract my post to Gruman Fan.

 

[BeeDubya]

Good catch BeeDub. I must have skipped over it, damn download!

I retract my post to Gruman Fan.

No worries... That's why I watch these boards.

 

[BeeDubya]

GPACs influence will be very limited. They have no funding and no recognizable structure. This integration( AKA assimilation) will be managed by NJASAP. They have funding and organization. There Union has absolutely no responsibility regarding NJI pilots at this time, whether there is GPAC or not. NJI pilots will be subject to what management and the union and have already agreed on. The LOA carries weight and not much else!

NJASAP endeavors a smooth integration with NJI. While it is true that we are not currently the bargaining agent for NJI pilots (and therefore have no Duty of Fair Representation, yet), it is not in anyone's best interest to ignore the NJI pilots throughout this process. In essence, there are two contemporaneous processes: integration under the CBA and integration within the Union. For integration under the CBA, the agreement (including side letters) will control, and what is left is implementation. For integration within the Union, while NJASAP will control, the input and participation of NJI pilots will be immensely valuable. In both cases, involvement of NJI pilots will be important, as the success of our Union has been because of the active involvement of the membership. We look forward to NJI pilots involvement.

 

[jenex]

NJASAP endeavors a smooth integration with NJI. While it is true that we are not currently the bargaining agent for NJI pilots (and therefore have no Duty of Fair Representation, yet), it is not in anyone's best interest to ignore the NJI pilots throughout this process. In essence, there are two contemporaneous processes: integration under the CBA and integration within the Union. For integration under the CBA, the agreement (including side letters) will control, and what is left is implementation. For integration within the Union, while NJASAP will control, the input and participation of NJI pilots will be immensely valuable. In both cases, involvement of NJI pilots will be important, as the success of our Union has been because of the active involvement of the membership. We look forward to NJI pilots involvement.

NJASAP’s relationship with GPAC does not change the Union’s representational duties: NJASAP is the bargaining agent for and represents the professional interests of the NJA pilots, and NJASAP does not represent NJI pilots and will not become their certified bargaining agent until the Final Integration Notice is remitted. Therefore NJASAP is no friend to NJI pilots until that time. There is no other way to see it, BW.

 

[Diesel]

Therefore NJASAP is no friend to NJI pilots until that time. There is no other way to see it, BW.

I'm sorry but you are wrong. NJASAP understands the benefits of working with GPAC to ensure that they are getting the true voice of the pilots from the beginning. They can see the big picture and understand that the support from NJI guys during the integration is far more beneficial than saying "we can do it better than you."