AirTran Airways pilots launch ALPA ballot drive!

[Regul8r]

The seeds of discontent are being planted

 

[Lear70]

Misconception #1: ALPA will show up on property, wave their magic wand and their will be payraises for all.

You're the only one who has even inferred that they would.

I don't think anyone has said anything except that a lot of work remains to be done, ALPA just gives us better resources to accomplish that work.

Not sure where your Misconception idea came from...

The seeds of discontent are being planted

HA! The seeds of discontent have already grown into a rainforest... that's why the ALPA and Teamsters drives are happening.

It's very simple: National representation and national resources (plus great insurance and job protection programs) and a strike war chest for less dues than we pay now, or the same old same old with higher dues.

I'll take my chances with ALPA and lower dues, thankyouverymuch.

YMMV

 

[gt1900]

PCL.... Please tell me you don't go by the project earning??? Heck, 1 year ago AAI was "projected" to earn almost $70 million in 2008... BTW... How is that a guy who screwed tons of guys over by buying his right seat turboprop time, from a company who should have been paying fo's to fly in the right seat, can b1tch and complain about a union. GUYS LIKE YOU ARE THE PROBLEM..... Now that you are on with a LCC you have this hollier then thou attitude... You make me sick.... Go back and work your way up instead of stealing your flight time from someone who doesn't have the money to buy their way into a job........ Off my soap box now....

 

[scarlet]

Who will run for office=THE SAME PEOPLE....

ALPA Sucks, but so does NPA.....NOTHING is going to CHANGE !!!!!!!!!

Just like the CHANGE candidate that everyone is treating like GOD (which is so scary) Change=back to all the people that have been in Washington for years!!! ??? And now the troops are not coming home so soon ?? U.S. people are like sheep

 

[PCL_128]

PCL.... Please tell me you don't go by the project earning???

Do you mean "projected" earnings? If so, then no, I don't "go by" them, but they are a positive indication of our future prospects. Personally, I think we'll do better than projected. In any case, our FOs deserve industry-standard wages, no matter what the company's earnings turn out to be. FOs that top out at $79/hr? Unacceptable.

 

[imacdog]

Why? Because you didn't like what he had to say? Were you even someone that worked with him, or were you just a crew-room lawyer who thinks he knows better?



Good local leaders can't accomplish jack sh!t if they don't have the resources to back them up.

I read the transcript of our 1113c hearing. Our lawyer did a lot of back peddling and contradicting and the judge tore his arguments apart. He didn't even have his references straight.

 

[PCL_128]

I read the transcript of our 1113c hearing. Our lawyer did a lot of back peddling and contradicting and the judge tore his arguments apart. He didn't even have his references straight.

I'll leave it to the attorneys to analyze the transcripts from your 1113 hearing, but think about it this way: if AirTran goes Chapter 11, the NPA doesn't even have an attorney to argue an 1113 case. Our only staff attorney specializes in insurance and medical leave issues, and doesn't have a clue about things like bankruptcy. Not only that, but she's going on maternity leave next month. That's right, we aren't going to have a single staff attorney at the NPA for months on end. Zero. Zip. Nada. Starting to understand why we need ALPA?

 

[imacdog]

If your union is keeping 100% of its dues instead of sending 70% to national, then why can't you hire a lawyer?

 

[PCL_128]

If your union is keeping 100% of its dues instead of sending 70% to national, then why can't you hire a lawyer?

First, no ALPA pilot group sends 70% to national. In fact, your airline receives far more money from ALPA than you pay in. In any case, even with our ridiculously high dues rate, we still don't produce enough dues revenue to hire full-time attorneys that have extensive experience in labor law. We can afford to hire a single attorney that is required to do everything, and most of her time is spent on basic matters like grievance filings. If we had to go to bankruptcy court, she wouldn't be able to have any time to deal with it, not to mention that she has no experience in such matters. We had a budget surplus this year, but that wouldn't be the case if we had had 3 negotiators on full-time buy for the whole year like you normally do during contract negotiations. You see, running a union costs far more than most pilots think it does. Think about this: it takes roughly four weeks of dues revenue just to pay the salary of our union President for the year. That's just one guy. Then there are negotiators, committee chairmen, the staff attorney, a couple of secretaries, a communications specialist, etc... The money disappears very quickly. Hiring a big time RLA lawyer with a couple decades of experience to be on full-time retainer just doesn't fit in the budget. But if you have ALPA, you have dozens of such attorneys at your disposal.

 

[imacdog]

It's not my airline anymore. I belong to a place with an in-house union. Do what you feel is best, just hope that if it does come down to BK that ALPA doesn't send you the same lawyer they sent me. The results kind of speak for themselves there.

 

[BoilerUP]

PCL,

How many pilots does AirTran employ?

 

[PCL_128]

PCL,

How many pilots does AirTran employ?

Roughly 1650, with 169 on furlough.

 

[Turtle21]

.. a JOKE, WORTHLESS, DISFUNCTIONAL, PUPPET MASTER, SPINELESS, NOT WORTHY OF EVEN BEING CALLES A UNION!!!...

Are sure you aren't already an ALPA card carrying member?

 

[Turtle21]

.. if you have ALPA, you have dozens of such attorneys at your disposal.

Yeah.. imagine how much better the Southwest and American contracts would be if only they had ALPA as a middleman!

 

[gt1900]

PCL.... Why is it you ignore the fact that you screwed guys out of paying jobs so you could buy your way to a real airline faster???? You always seem to be a pro union guy but you forget to tell everyone you PAID for your right seat 1900 time... Doesn't that make you feel sick that you screwed some guy out of a paying job??? Now your all pro ALPA and chit..... All you need to do is look in the mirror and you will see the problem with the airlines....

 

[PCL_128]

PCL.... Why is it you ignore the fact that you screwed guys out of paying jobs so you could buy your way to a real airline faster????

I don't ignore it. I'm very open about it, in fact. It was an idiotic thing to do, and I do everything I can to convince other new pilots not to do the same thing.

Doesn't that make you feel sick that you screwed some guy out of a paying job???

Yes. I can't really undo mistakes of the past, though.

 

[PHXFLYR]

I will sign an ALPA card as soon as I see it....it can't be soon enough our NPA is a JOKE, WORTHLESS, DISFUNCTIONAL, PUPPET MASTER, SPINELESS, NOT WORTHY OF EVEN BEING CALLES A UNION!!!
..........................

You think NPA is useless ??? Try USAPA . Now that's useless ........

PHXFLYR

 

[Lear70]

PCL.... Why is it you ignore the fact that you screwed guys out of paying jobs so you could buy your way to a real airline faster???? You always seem to be a pro union guy but you forget to tell everyone you PAID for your right seat 1900 time... Doesn't that make you feel sick that you screwed some guy out of a paying job??? Now your all pro ALPA and chit..... All you need to do is look in the mirror and you will see the problem with the airlines....

Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether ALPA would be better on property than the NPA or Teamsters.

But thanks for your constructive input.

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled mud throwing.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I helped negotiate 2 seperate wage increase programs for the pilots at SkyWest.

But because it was not under a format that you can understand, you can do nothing but belittle it.

Sorry, but I don't understand your use of the word negotiation. What negotiation power or leverage did you have? Rather the negotiation and leverage came from union negotiated pay wages. The best you offered was information for your management to do as it wished.

Your clear disdain for ALPA and constant rejection of the safety and professional organization does not allow much credibility now.

Trying to negotiate a contract now, with this economy, would be foolish. Most airlines have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel.

The quickest way to defeat is to resign ones self before ones begin.



But let's not take away from the thread.. this is about the FL pilots looking for national support.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It's not my airline anymore. I belong to a place with an in-house union. Do what you feel is best, just hope that if it does come down to BK that ALPA doesn't send you the same lawyer they sent me. The results kind of speak for themselves there.

What did you expect a labor lawyer to do during the BK era with an anti labor Admin in office...


Look at it this way....

In Canada, the gov't told UAL that Canadian employee pensions were untouchable. Those pension are still intact.

In the USA, the Bush Admin allowed UAL to gut American worker pensions.....


So what did you want this lawyer to do?


Fact is, with Obama and his pro labor Admin coming to WashDC, this is an excellent time for Airtran pilots to vote for ALPA.

When it comes to being connected in WashDC ALPA is hands down the better National resource. In addition, with Woerth possibly becoming the FAA Admin, being ALPA is the best chance Airtran pilots have at getting a fair and reasonable contract...


Remember how you got hired at Airtran.... you networked and politiced your buddies who were already in the inside to get the interview. Once you had the interview you closed the deal with recommendation letters and got the job... all politics...

This is no different... get connected... get a good contract!