JB pilots file with NMB

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I love his argument that unions are like apple pie and baseball, a true American 4th of July festival. Of course, he leaves out the communistic influences and does not show how these socialist habits are now going to kill the US auto industry. I think unions have their place, but whoever Rez is, he seems to be a giddy kid with some minor job in a union, and is so excited about when it his day to make decisions. Of course here on this web board he can practice for the big day by making us all want to stab our eyes out so we do not have to read his stuff.

So the jB pilots are communist for wanting a union?

How are unions communist? How are socialist habits killing the auto industry...

It is easy to throw out comments and labels.... it is something else to back them up with logic and reasoning...

 

[Bavarian Chef]

... he leaves out the communistic influences and does not show how these socialist habits are now going to kill the US auto industry ...

Yeah, making bad products that NO ONE wants to buy has/had NOTHING to do with it.

 

[lowecur]

Unions are fine if leadership/membership is realistic and puts the good of the company first. The problems begin when irrational individualistic demands skew a longterm competitive business model. Even SWAPA's failure of a new agreement (for how many years?), speaks volume's about priorities (the founding father's at SWAPA must be cringing) in this difficult environment, and sets a poor example for other work groups within the company looking for new contracts.

You don't have to just look at the auto industry as an analogy, just take a look at the way the US gov't is run. You have hundreds of Congressman all putting their districts ahead of the good of the country the last 25 yrs, receiving billions of dollars of pork each year based upon their pecking order within committee's. Then look at their loyalty to individual special interests.

We are the "me" generation, and to hell with everyone else. Well, the me's are going to learn the hard way in the next 50 yrs that putting individual voters, companies, and special interests ahead of the good of the country at any cost.... has a price.

So I say go for it. But if you elect officials that don't put the viability of the airline ahead of union, then don't whine when you're sending out resumes in the not too distant future. Remember, long term stability ain't free.

imp: ​

 

[Lebowski]

We are the "me" generation, and to hell with everyone else. Well, the me's are going to learn the hard way in the next 50 yrs that putting individual voters, companies, and special interests ahead of the good of the country at any cost.... has a price.

Good point--for Russ and other top mgmt to read and abide by.

As for the JBPA, I don't think this is a "me first" approach and I don't think it's a vote against long term job stability as you suggest.

Representation does not equal greed. And representation does not equal job instability.

Nice attempt at inspiring guilt and fear, though.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Unions are fine if leadership/membership is realistic and puts the good of the company first. The problems begin when irrational individualistic demands skew a longterm competitive business model. Even SWAPA's failure of a new agreement (for how many years?), speaks volume's about priorities (the founding father's at SWAPA must be cringing) in this difficult environment, and sets a poor example for other work groups within the company looking for new contracts.

You don't have to just look at the auto industry as an analogy, just take a look at the way the US gov't is run. You have hundreds of Congressman all putting their districts ahead of the good of the country the last 25 yrs, receiving billions of dollars of pork each year based upon their pecking order within committee's. Then look at their loyalty to individual special interests.

We are the "me" generation, and to hell with everyone else. Well, the me's are going to learn the hard way in the next 50 yrs that putting individual voters, companies, and special interests ahead of the good of the country at any cost.... has a price.

So I say go for it. But if you elect officials that don't put the viability of the airline ahead of union, then don't whine when you're sending out resumes in the not too distant future. Remember, long term stability ain't free.

imp: ​

Said by the insurance salesman. Please tell me where insurance salesman hang out so I go there and act like I belong.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

JBPA:

I claimed that I made my decision based on what a pilot said in the crew room....and he wasn't an unknown. I know exactly who he is and I also know that he wasn't the only one who voiced that opinion to management.

You base your distrust about the "furlough" pay based on what? Has this been tested? This is similar to the contract language we all wanted in case of a sale, merger, or change of control. The company put the language in the contract and asked the union organizers to send it out to anyone they chose to render an opinion. When the opinon came back that it was enforceable language, and damn good language, some still shot holes in it. There are precedents in the world of law, but there are few absolutes. Absolutes in this industry are tales of yore.

Speaking of absolutes, I dare say that while you may have suffered or went backward in pay and bennies, everyone was going backward in pay and bennies with oil at $147/bbl. While the price has gone down more than anyone thought possible, now we have to deal with a possible recession. The upgrades the 320 FO's were promised evaporated with the oil prices....we were prudently growing until then. Management had to deal with what appeared to be a new energy environment and they acted quickly to make sure we all will have a paycheck.

Provided the economy doesn't tank completely, the upgrades will reappear.

While my logic may seem sophmoric to you, it is based on watching both sides of this equation for 22 years. I may not have the same opinion as you, but I respect your right to choose. Choose wisely, because in the end we are all JB pilots!

A350

You mentioned the "goal" earlier.

Once again, I ask you, who defines the goal, and what is it?

 

[PCL_128]

Of course, he leaves out the communistic influences

Trade unions predate the Communist Manifesto. Communism didn't even exist when unions were first created.

 

[PCL_128]

....scope has worked so well for ALPA carriers.....:laugh:

ALPA is self destructing over the failures of scope.....

Bullsh--, John. Scope hasn't been perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but if it weren't for ALPA scope, then there wouldn't be such a thing as a "mainline" job anymore. All jobs would have been outsourced to feeder carriers years ago, and we all would have been fighting over the scraps, seeing who could underbid everyone else. Scope has served its purpose.

 

[radarlove]

Said by the insurance salesman. Please tell me where insurance salesman hang out so I go there and act like I belong.

he's not an insurance salesman. he's a jet blue pilot. Hasn't everyone figured that out yet?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion.
~Thomas Jefferson

 

[A350]

The goal is to be working for the best airline in the world and being paid top notch wages and bennies.

That is my goal...

A350

 

[viper01]

I'm in the bottom 300 and I'm willing to sacrifice a furlough to have a voice and a long career at jb. I want pilots representing pilots here at jb. I know the legal term is third party rep, but it is an in-house representation (our pilots for our pilot group).

 

[Bavarian Chef]

The goal is to be working for the best airline in the world and being paid top notch wages and bennies.

That is my goal...

A350

So your goal is to be a Southwest pilot?

 

[starvingredtail]

So the jB pilots are communist for wanting a union?

How are unions communist? How are socialist habits killing the auto industry...

It is easy to throw out comments and labels.... it is something else to back them up with logic and reasoning...

No, JB pilots can make their decision on their own. Your comments are in question. You make unions out to be an all American sport acepted by all. They are not. A large shift came in the 1930's from guild like apprenticeships to unions used as a means to introduce and spread communism.
http://depts.washington.edu/labhist/cpproject/grijalva.htm

Socialism has been injected into the work force through various ways. One is health care. The other is the regulation of retirements. The auto industry in America simply is going broke paying retirements. Its easier to throw out facts than trying to make things up like unions are as American as the girl next door or root beer.

 

[starvingredtail]

Trade unions predate the Communist Manifesto. Communism didn't even exist when unions were first created.

However, they turned out to be the perfect avenue for communism after the Bolshivek revolution.