JB pilots file with NMB

[timmay]

Dont forget that as soon as you sign in the union you take a 2% pay cut. Good Luck

 

[linepilot]

They take an 8% cut every year from inflation and I would be willing to bet their health care costs are more than 4% of the average FO's salary. They pay twice in health care what I pay here. There's your 2% - if they even pay that. As far as I know, SWAPA still pays 1%. I could be wrong.
The health insurance from 2002 would have been locked in with a Pilot CBA but Jetblue is bound and determined to have the entire company on the same set of benefits. Rampers get a $1000 deductible. Pilots get a $1000 deductible. That's all well and good if you fly for fun.
This career used to be lucrative. Now you can't make a decent living if you're stuck in the right seat for 20 years.
That management team intends to redefine "airline pilot" and what that means in terms of work rules, pay, benefits, and even pilot duties. When I was there, they were trying to redefine rest rules and weighing in on age 65 in the name of the pilots.
I don't think the pilots are going to play ball anymore.
We'll see.

 

[PCL_128]

Dont forget that as soon as you sign in the union you take a 2% pay cut. Good Luck

This is a ridiculous statement. You don't take a 2% paycut, you are purchasing services with your 2%. You're purchasing legal representation, collective bargaining, work rule enforcement, etc... For just a measly 2%, you're buying a whole hell of a lot of services.

Good luck to the JetBlue pilots. Time to make another donation.

 

[clickclickboom]

Dont forget that as soon as you sign in the union you take a 2% pay cut. Good Luck

Im sorry you must have mistaken our company for one of those pay for jet time get to wear this real fancy id lanyard hey baby i'm an airline pilot airlines

I also bought 15,000 shares of JB when it hit 3.68 a few weeks ago only to sell $2 higher about a week later.. I set it aside for JBPA dues

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

There are three main reasons for us to organize. First and foremost is legally the company cannot provide certain specific needs that are unique to pilots unless they provide them to every other employee. An industry standard pilot retirement plan; pilot specific LOL/LTD/STD rather than generic workmans comp; scope; merger/acquisition language; ERISA concerns about our 401K, etc, etc. These are just some of the issues that are pilot specific. Without a CBA the company is legally bound to lump us in with everybody else.

Second, I'm tired of having no say in workrules and scheduling issues. As of now the company can change anything at any time and we can't do anything about it. A CBA will codify the rules and hold the company and us to that standard and in the event there is a disagreement there will also be a resolution and/or grievance process. Right now they interpret and we either comply or not at our own peril.

Third, as an organized entity we have the ability to negotiate for our services. Right now we have no choice. Take it or leave it. The PCRB provided a comprehensive and detailed analysis of how we stack up against the rest of the industry. Despite repeated promises of making us whole we are still behind the curve. Barger's response was to spin it and try to convince us we are on par with our peers. If he really believes that he's an idiot and if he's just trying to blow smoke up our asses it's insulting. Either way, as an organized pilot group we get to leverage a say in the matter. To what effect? Who knows, but that would still be better than being neutered.

In general, I like our management team and I like working here, but we are one CEO change away from a Lorenzo and we would have no say in the new world order from the new guy. A CBA will give us some protection.

If, and that's a big if, your scenario plays out like you suggest I still think that short term pain for long term gain is necessary. No, I'm not in the bottom 300, but I'm still in the wrong seat and still a long way from getting to the good seat. This airline isn't bad if you get to look out the left window. It's pretty substandard if all you see is the right winglet.

good points...

How about a fourth and foremost reason: representation is the American and democratic way. It is modeled after our constitution that many have fought and sacrificed for....

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Right, and representation today has not saved the thousands of union jobs that have been lost in both the aviation and automotive industires. So far, at the non-union Jetblue, no one has lost their job. That is a fact...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Right, and representation today has not saved the thousands of union jobs that have been lost in both the aviation and automotive industires. So far, at the non-union Jetblue, no one has lost their job. That is a fact...

Looks like we have a no voter on JBPA....

The point isn't about saving jobs. Unions do not hire and fire... Sure they can use negotiating capital to reduce layoffs.... but isn't that something the company should be doing anyway?


Oh and the very union, most unionized, SWA has not layed off anyone either...... In addition, I am not aware of SWA pilots leaving to go to jB, but plenty of jB leave to go to SWA....


Finally, and most importantly representation is not about unionism and saving jobs, it is about representation. The fundamental right to representation. Either you understand it as an American or not.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Looks like we have a no voter on JBPA....

The point isn't about saving jobs. Unions do not hire and fire... Sure they can use negotiating capital to reduce layoffs.... but isn't that something the company should be doing anyway?


Oh and the very union, most unionized, SWA has not layed off anyone either...... In addition, I am not aware of SWA pilots leaving to go to jB, but plenty of jB leave to go to SWA....


Finally, and most importantly representation is not about unionism and saving jobs, it is about representation. The fundamental right to representation. Either you understand it as an American or not.....

The SWA pilots union also worked with management....they never persued the defined benefits package that put their competition at a disadvantage.....

It isn't about whether you are union or not....It's about being reasonable....Some unions are....some aren't.....If the SWA pilots union had been really hard line....they wouldn't be where they are today...

Rez. says unions "do not hire and fire"......that is true....However unions do affect the ability to compete with other companies......The UAW is a perfect example.....

 

[Beantown]

I'm a A320 FO, Bottom 25% and am on the fence.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I'm a A320 FO, Bottom 25% and am on the fence.

As a former CCAir pilot....I can see why......

 

[Splert]

I'm all for it. Then furlough 300 as soon as we can so I can get a better bid divisor... The first DB letter was comical maybe, but he also wrote a second one the very same day that included this language:

A union’s promises of job security, protection and growth are very seductive. I recognize the desire to secure your future, and to support someone when they make these promises. But no one can guarantee anything. I can only guarantee that we will continue to make the sometimes tough and always necessary decisions to protect JetBlue and position our company for success. DB


I would say once a union is on the property, our JBPA will negotiate great benefit and pay raises but in return (a negotiation) will give up our "no furlough clause". Goodbye 300 pilots (this is how much we're overstaffed) and oh by the way, how many captains will be displaced? Think of those numbers boys and girls when you vote. This vote will do nothing but split up the pilot core, many of whom do not support this move at this time in our economy...

Our agreement does not include a "no furlough clause". The agreement has a 5 year duration.

If the company wants to layoff/furlough they can and it is up to each pilot to attempt to collect the balance due under the terms of the contract by using the dispute resolution procedure contained within the agreement. This process is first the open door policy (I mean no return telephone call policy, then mediation and then arbitration.

A JFK based will have to pay his own way to JFK from his/her home town (hotel, food and travel) for the 60 day process to take place.

I would imagine most E190FO's will take 3 months pay and scram.

 

[waveflyer]

The SWA pilots union also worked with management....they never persued the defined benefits package that put their competition at a disadvantage.....

It isn't about whether you are union or not....It's about being reasonable....Some unions are....some aren't.....If the SWA pilots union had been really hard line....they wouldn't be where they are today...

Rez. says unions "do not hire and fire"......that is true....However unions do affect the ability to compete with other companies......The UAW is a perfect example.....

By your logic- you don't think SWA is at a disadvantage by paying their pilots so much more than every other pax airline? The "regionals" should teach us-- you'll never make a low enough amount. Pilot's get paid where they take a stand.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Dont forget that as soon as you sign in the union you take a 2% pay cut. Good Luck

I can't afford to hire my own lawyer to help me negotiate my individual 5-year contract. That is why I am voting yes for representation. Because I can afford 1-2% of my pay to hire a lawyer and a negotiating team who will represent my best interests.

The company did an awful job of trying to sell the latest "contract" to us this last summer. I know of many who didn't sign it and are still under the old contract. I know many who didn't want to sign it, but felt that if they didn't, they'd be labeled as a troublemaker. Basically, the VP of Flt. Ops and others were told to sell us a "beep" sandwich. Most of us saw right through their dog and pony show. A record number of us voiced our complaints and concerns regarding the new deal, but in the end there was nothing we could do to change it.

Having a team to negotiate for us can ultimately bring the change that is needed with our current pay/benefits/workrules.

This is not an emotional decision. It is a business decision, plain and simple.

GP

 

[waterski]

Looks like we have a no voter on JBPA....

The point isn't about saving jobs. Unions do not hire and fire... Sure they can use negotiating capital to reduce layoffs.... but isn't that something the company should be doing anyway?


Oh and the very union, most unionized, SWA has not layed off anyone either...... In addition, I am not aware of SWA pilots leaving to go to jB, but plenty of jB leave to go to SWA....


Finally, and most importantly representation is not about unionism and saving jobs, it is about representation. The fundamental right to representation. Either you understand it as an American or not.....

You have more than one.

 

[clickclickboom]

I'm a A320 FO, Bottom 25% and am on the fence.

Being on the fence gives you an advantage over others. You can come to a completely unbiased conclusion as to how you vote.

I am in the top 30% FO 320 and that is good enough to give me 2 weekends off per month, all holidays, and the random 8 hr day turn.

Those are good things.

unfortunately with children my healthcare costs are out of sight and when you compare your healthcare cost to that of a senior captain you quickly realize that a much larger portion of your salary goes to paying for benefits.

I have blue care 2 which is $130 per month plus the dental and vision std ltd etc...

It costs me about $300 per month

BUT I did a $2000 FSA acct that I burned through and also came out of pocket $1750 last year

My benes cost me $7350 in 2007 that is with 2 kids a wife and no unexpected visits to the hospital.

Take a look at your W2 from last year and compare your net income to your healthcare expense.

Now amortize that yearly amount over the remaining term of your career and put a conservative number on it say 5% annualized return. You will quickly realize that health care shortfalls here end up costing you literally hundreds of thousands of dollars over a 25 year career.

Also look at your FO seat pay 10 years out and ask yourself: Do you and you family deserve to after 10 years of service to not be making at least $100,000 per year? the only way you can do that here is by working 90+ hours a month AFTER YEAR 6

$40,000,000 per year gives every pilot here a $20,000 raise. To put this into perspective JB just in the last year has finally started to extract revenue and lifts these stupid ticket cost caps from $299 to what people are willing to pay.

in the last quarter alone we brought in over $160,000,000 in additional revenue YET we have a capacity reduction of $11%.

Also keep in mind that ALL PILOTS have been affected. This is about all pilots at all carriers. If we can do it they can as well. All professional pilots deserve better than what we have currently.

Our goal is industry average with QOL, Longevity, and Real benefits thats it. Nobody is expecting $350 per hr with a 90hr guarantee

 

[JoeMerchant]

By your logic- you don't think SWA is at a disadvantage by paying their pilots so much more than every other pax airline? The "regionals" should teach us-- you'll never make a low enough amount. Pilot's get paid where they take a stand.

SWA will be at a cost disadvantage...But the big cost advantage they had for so many years was not having the pension plans that the legacy carriers had.....Their union was thinking long term....They worked with management to become better than the competition....

Not all unions are created equal......

 

[Splert]

SWA will be at a cost disadvantage...

Then why is SWA Pilot CASM one of the lowest in the industry. Utilization, maybe???

 

[JoeMerchant]

Then why is SWA Pilot CASM one of the lowest in the industry. Utilization, maybe???

That is because they don't operate a "hub and spoke" system....That does give them an advantage...

By their very nature, hub and spoke systems result in less utilization....

 

[Scape112]

I'm all for it. Then furlough 300 as soon as we can so I can get a better bid divisor... The first DB letter was comical maybe, but he also wrote a second one the very same day that included this language:

A union’s promises of job security, protection and growth are very seductive. I recognize the desire to secure your future, and to support someone when they make these promises. But no one can guarantee anything. I can only guarantee that we will continue to make the sometimes tough and always necessary decisions to protect JetBlue and position our company for success. DB


I would say once a union is on the property, our JBPA will negotiate great benefit and pay raises but in return (a negotiation) will give up our "no furlough clause". Goodbye 300 pilots (this is how much we're overstaffed) and oh by the way, how many captains will be displaced? Think of those numbers boys and girls when you vote. This vote will do nothing but split up the pilot core, many of whom do not support this move at this time in our economy...

I hope to god you are Joking about getting rid of 300 pilots. You want this just so you can go back to having 1-2 more days of and a little more money. The last time I checked, half the purpose of a union is to have a strong united pilot group with one voice. That being said, how can you want all of us to bring a union on property and then kick 2-300 to the street. That seems so ass backwards to me. I will fully admit I would be one of those 300 and I understand that being new in a company you deal with it sometimes. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if you were at one of those guys at a legacy carrier once upon a time and got the boot (which sucks) and then you had nowhere else to go and figured you would "give JB a shot for now" since there was nowhere else to go. Now that your senior here you don't remember or care? If you were not one of these guys then thats great you never had to deal with it.

I do believe we should be paid more and that our benefits need to improve, especially health care. I know a lot of guys are bitter and rightly so for the way management at other airlines have treated them in the past. I was displaced, and almost furloughed before. I was 10 from the bottom, and I watched all my friends get furloughed. It sucked for them, many of us did not pick up a minute of open time until they were all called back. Do you really feel that we should get rid of the bottom chuck of the list? Or do you think its better that they company is trying to do the right thing and keep every pilot bringing home a paycheck?

This really does not have anything to do with a union, i just can't believe everyone is still all about themselves still. That is part of the reason the industry is the way it is today.

 

[bluesideup340]

Looks like we have a no voter on JBPA....


Finally, and most importantly representation is not about unionism and saving jobs, it is about representation. The fundamental right to representation. Either you understand it as an American or not.....

I appreciate your dedication to the cause, but to debate on this low level of you either understand it or not as an American undermines your augment.
Yes, it is a free country and we should have a debate on substance not on name calling.
Give us more details on JBPA.
What do they stand for? How does JBPA intent to engage management in finding solutions while working on realistic goals to improve our lives? What type of negotiation philosophy will JBPA pursue? Where do the professional Negotiators for JBPA come form, internal or external? What and who has a say in defining realistic goals and expectations for the entire group all Pilots? What is the long-term goal of the association in terms of pay, benefit, and work rule? How about check and balances? How about a no furlough comittment by the Union, is JBPA willing to protect jobs at the bottom end of the seniority even if this means less overtime for rank of the list?