Practical cost savings for ASA...

[CFI2766]

G,

I know you haven't been here long enough to have a comparison, but the GO probably has 10% to 20% fewer people working there than it did before the SkyWest purchase. Maybe even more than that, but I'm not sure. Additionally, many of them are on pay-freezes.

Also, there are waaaay fewer pilots who work in the office doing project work. It was a very expensive way to get things done, especially if they were doing what amounted to analyst-level work.

There are a lot of departments that do a lot of small things that add up to our airline running smoothly. Keep in mind that many of the things that you may complain about not getting done properly can only be done by adding more staff, or at least not firing any more of them. Don't reduce the number of pay auditors, for example, and expect your paycheck to be accurate. We probably need more of them already.

Most of the people in the GO are doing their jobs plus what used to be someone else's job for the same pay as before. The entire company is taking in the belt-line, trying to survive hard times. No one, not the pilots, not the flight attendants, or the GO workers, will make the only sacrifices. We are all in this together.

Please try to remember that people who work in the GO are just as much a part of this company as you are, and have just as much vested in its survival.

Kudos to you for a well articulated response.

Look, I'm not personally attacking any one specific individual, nor am I attempting to be 'disrespectful'. Also, I specifically avoided framing my thoughts in an adversarial pilots versus the khaki-wearers way. My sentiments here aren't personal: I'm being strictly analytical. Let's face the facts here: our future as a company, and therefore my immediate professional future, depends on reigning in costs. I get it.

I believe that my tenure here is an asset, not an impediment to objective thought. On three separate occasions I toured the GO and observed the same thing: a lot of people not doing a whole lot.

Prior to flying, my background was business consulting and teaching. I obviously don't have access to ASA's books, the real ones with day to day, pro forma data, but I do have the experience and common sense to know that there was a LOT of wasted payroll dollars.

Every day ASA seeks to improve the productivity of the front line staff with new initiatives. Project APU, Cost Index flying, PBS, name the acronym. All I'm asking is for the same effort from the back-office, especially if there are furloughs in the near future. (If there are fewer pilots, wouldn't there by definition be less of a need for the support provided by the GO?)

One final reflection: you mention pay freezes and doing more work for a given salary. Aren't the line flying pilots doing the exact same thing? Take the average hourly rate from 5, 10, and 15 years ago. I'd comfortably speculate that it hasn't kept pace with inflation over that time span, much less seen any growth. Food for thought.

 

[777forever]

Kudos to you for a well articulated response.

Look, I'm not personally attacking any one specific individual, nor am I attempting to be 'disrespectful'. Also, I specifically avoided framing my thoughts in an adversarial pilots versus the khaki-wearers way. My sentiments here aren't personal: I'm being strictly analytical. Let's face the facts here: our future as a company, and therefore my immediate professional future, depends on reigning in costs. I get it.

I believe that my tenure here is an asset, not an impediment to objective thought. On three separate occasions I toured the GO and observed the same thing: a lot of people not doing a whole lot.

Prior to flying, my background was business consulting and teaching. I obviously don't have access to ASA's books, the real ones with day to day, pro forma data, but I do have the experience and common sense to know that there was a LOT of wasted payroll dollars.

Every day ASA seeks to improve the productivity of the front line staff with new initiatives. Project APU, Cost Index flying, PBS, name the acronym. All I'm asking is for the same effort from the back-office, especially if there are furloughs in the near future. (If there are fewer pilots, wouldn't there by definition be less of a need for the support provided by the GO?)

One final reflection: you mention pay freezes and doing more work for a given salary. Aren't the line flying pilots doing the exact same thing? Take the average hourly rate from 5, 10, and 15 years ago. I'd comfortably speculate that it hasn't kept pace with inflation over that time span, much less seen any growth. Food for thought.

You mean your business consulting & teaching background gives you the ability to eyeball any company and tell if there's too many people? Common sense must go a long ways these days....

 

[Abernathy]

You mean your business consulting & teaching background gives you the ability to eyeball any company and tell if there's too many people? Common sense must go a long ways these days....

It gives him a whole lot more credibility than you. At least he's got some experience in his past to back up his statements.

I wouldn't doubt for a minute that we have too many people in the GO doing nothing more than drinking coffee and complaining about pilots and FAs.

 

[WalterSobchak]

I believe that my tenure here is an asset, not an impediment to objective thought. On three separate occasions I toured the GO and observed the same thing: a lot of people not doing a whole lot.

We got our collective tails kicked yesterday with broken airplanes and low vis in SoCal that wreaked havoc on every system. However, if the average person that doesn't know the in's & out's of what we do in here watched me work yesterday...they could argue that I was "not doing a whole lot".

Just because you don't know what they do...or, in my case, the fact that they make it look easy, doesn't mean they aren't worth what they are paid. It takes alot of people to cover the back-office end of things...and, when it comes to office jobs at an airline's GO, it's feast or famine. Either you're getting your butt kicked, you're working steady, or you're not busy at all. That goes for all departments...and it's almost always either #1 or #3 of those options. Looks like you might have caught a few people on a "famine" day.

One final reflection: you mention pay freezes and doing more work for a given salary. Aren't the line flying pilots doing the exact same thing?

Isn't that, in essence, what you were asking of them in your original post?

I get your basic point...and, i'm not trying to be argumentative with you...but, in my personal business consulting experience (still a side gig of mine), I've come to realize that, no matter what the business, there will always be days where people will be standing around. You keep them around for when the workload goes through the roof...which, in our business, is more often than ever before.

Before you decide that someone needs to lose their job, go sit with that person if you think they're doing nothing...

 

[Speedtape]

We got our collective tails kicked yesterday with broken airplanes and low vis in SoCal that wreaked havoc on every system. However, if the average person that doesn't know the in's & out's of what we do in here watched me work yesterday...they could argue that I was "not doing a whole lot".

Just because you don't know what they do...or, in my case, the fact that they make it look easy, doesn't mean they aren't worth what they are paid. It takes alot of people to cover the back-office end of things...and, when it comes to office jobs at an airline's GO, it's feast or famine. Either you're getting your butt kicked, you're working steady, or you're not busy at all. That goes for all departments...and it's almost always either #1 or #3 of those options. Looks like you might have caught a few people on a "famine" day.


Isn't that, in essence, what you were asking of them in your original post?

I get your basic point...and, i'm not trying to be argumentative with you...but, in my personal business consulting experience (still a side gig of mine), I've come to realize that, no matter what the business, there will always be days where people will be standing around. You keep them around for when the workload goes through the roof...which, in our business, is more often than ever before.

Before you decide that someone needs to lose their job, go sit with that person if you think they're doing nothing...

Well said, Old (or Young) Wise One!

 

[777forever]

I wouldn't doubt for a minute that we have too many people in the GO doing nothing more than drinking coffee and complaining about pilots and FAs.

And they don't doubt for a minute that there are pilots on nap reserve with 25+ days off a month collecting a full paycheck for playing XBOX....

Then a pilot will have to explain to them an on call pilot is "not really a day off"

Point is, I find it very rude and wrong just to go nosing around a corporate office then proclaiming there's too many people without having the slightest idea the responsibilities and duties of these workers. Especially when your very own department is overstaffed. These people are humans and have families to feed as well. Have a little respect...

 

[Abernathy]

And they don't doubt for a minute that there are pilots on nap reserve with 25+ days off a month collecting a full paycheck for playing XBOX....

Not to turn this discussion around, but does anyone know what happened to the crew meals?

 

[Abernathy]

Point is, I find it very rude and wrong just to go nosing around a corporate office then proclaiming there's too many people without having the slightest idea the responsibilities and duties of these workers. Especially when your very own department is overstaffed. These people are humans and have families to feed as well. Have a little respect...

Where's my violin..

 

[SLUF4]

I ate a crew meal about 2 weeks ago. I had to take it off the truck myself, though. What do you mean? Are they gone?

 

[ASA_Aviator]

So, now that you identified yourself as a GO-insider, what exactly do you do?

Not an insider, but I was an intern "back in the day," and saw how things worked before the sale to SkyWest.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Kudos to you for a well

I believe that my tenure here is an asset, not an impediment to objective thought. On three separate occasions I toured the GO and observed the same thing: a lot of people not doing a whole lot.

As much as it would make sense for people to be working flat out 100% productive all the time from 8 to 5, that is simply an unrealistic goal. As someone else said, work flows are not constant, just as they aren't constant in our jobs either. We are especially busy from 30 minutes prior to a flight until above 10,000 feet, then it is cake for however long cruise is. A benefit's worker is probably pretty idle until they get 5 calls in a row, but for them to be 100% productive, there would have to be a lot of waiting and message leaving on our parts when we wanted to get someone on the phone. It is already hard enough to get someone to actually answer their phone!

I know you aren't being intentionally disrespectful, but it would come across that way to someone who works in the office, and thinks they and those around them are doing a good job with the tools made available to them. That's really my only point. I don't think that we shouldn't look at the office, and determine what can be cut, but believe me, the people who work there are working.

I bet if you contacted a department and asked to shadow them, they would accommodate you, by the way. You may have some insights, and they may have some for you as well.

 

[McNugent]

Anyone check their email from Tutt today??

 

[CFI2766]

You mean your business consulting & teaching background gives you the ability to eyeball any company and tell if there's too many people? Common sense must go a long ways these days....

Well, frankly, yes: I do have the ability to see a company that is fat on payroll. Give me access to the operating books and I would prove this point.

It seems the the VP of flight ops agrees with me.

I acquired this common sense while working through my ratings to get to this point in my career. You may read that as I didn't have mommy and daddy to help me. How 'bout you?

Clearly, this stinks for the people who will soon be losing their jobs. If you believe that I find joy in this fact, you are even more dense than your posts would lead one to believe.

To be sure, this pain will not be isolated to the GO.

We all have something to lose here, don't we?

 

[McNugent]

que???

 

[777forever]

Well, frankly, yes: I do have the ability to see a company that is fat on payroll. Give me access to the operating books and I would prove this point.

It seems the the VP of flight ops agrees with me.

I acquired this common sense while working through my ratings to get to this point in my career. You may read that as I didn't have mommy and daddy to help me. How 'bout you?

Clearly, this stinks for the people who will soon be losing their jobs. If you believe that I find joy in this fact, you are even more dense than your posts would lead one to believe.

To be sure, this pain will not be isolated to the GO.

We all have something to lose here, don't we?

Cross training people to do multiple jobs and laying off some is not an indication of having too many people. If they had "SO many extra people" then they wouldn't have to cross train.

When pilots get furloughed do they cross train Captains to fly both right and left seat?