Go Jet Airlines, a reasonable option or a way to the blacklist?

[RP170]

his obviously foreign sim partner

Seems to be a lot of those there at GJ (at least it sounds that way over ATC). Why is that? Do they not know any better or what? Not trying to flame, just curious.

 

[CX880]

Seems to be a lot of those there at GJ (at least it sounds that way over ATC). Why is that? Do they not know any better or what? Not trying to flame, just curious.

5% of the pilot group isn't a lot. Besides, Mesa has a lot of foreign sounding pilots over the ATC, what's your point?

 

[RP170]

5% of the pilot group isn't a lot. Besides, Mesa has a lot of foreign sounding pilots over the ATC, what's your point?

That answers my question then. Just sounded like there was more than 5%. As I said, I was just asking.

 

[ALIMBO]

CX I'm out Im not going to GJ no more I found a better place that can work around school a lot better. Sry bro..

 

[CX880]

CX I'm out Im not going to GJ no more I found a better place that can work around school a lot better. Sry bro..

Finish school, it's for the better. GJ won't be hiring low timers anyways soon, classes are being reserved by pt121 out on the street and will probably be so until next year.

 

[lowlycfi]

Geez, another one of these threads. I'll take the over on the 10-15 page prediction.

Yes! I won!

 

[Freight Dog]

I'd still like to hear from nwa_contrails and other GoJet bashers on this thread to please reply to my posts with reasonable and rational arguments.

Guys?

 

[acaTerry]

FAST upgrade is your number one priority---the rest is nothing--get your time and you WILL move on to a place where fighting for a good contract will matter.

...until the next GoJets, Freedom, whatever comes up, runs your reputable carrier to the ground and you are reading threads like this, with replies like lookin4better telling you to screw the other guy, it's OK, you'll move on....the cycle continues...

 

[acaTerry]

GJ is pref hiring TSA. 10 already here, with more in different classes according to hr. By the way I'm still undecided, don't like both.

Ah the plan worked perfectly!!! HKs master plan to bust up TSA pilot group by alter-ego, then bringing the TSA pilots over after having eaten them from the inside out....just like cancer!!! BEAUTIFUL!!!!

 

[RiddleEagle18]

You know its amazing that our unions havent learned from the original Continental, Freedom, Open Sky(British Airways alter ego) and Gojets etc. How ever you feel about the issue, same airline, different airlines what ever. The point is every contract signed from here on out should have a provision stating that any flying done for this company or any holding company that is set up by our company will be done by (insert pilot group name). If a holding company aquires (insert airline name) the pilot seniority list will be merged.

Skywest aquisition of ASA would have forced a merger of the pilot list taking away any possibility of whipsaw. TSA could have set up GoJets to get around the american scope issues but the pilots would have been on TSA master seniority list like RAH. Once delta gets done with the NWA aquisiton Mesaba, Comair, and Compass would be forced to merge seniority list.

 

[Freight Dog]

Very true Riddle... but as you may or may not know about negotiations, how much negotiating capital are you willing to spend to ensure that?

Yeah, we were all pretty ticked off at Mesa for "lowering the bar." Hell, that bar sagging so low at Mesa is what ultimately cost me a nice, cush 6 figure Boeing job in Hawaii - they came in and undercut the crap out of us and ultimately put us out of business. But in the end, they bit the bullet and spent a sh*tload of negotiating capital to squash Freedom being a separate list. Was it worth it? What's their opportunity cost? Time will tell... it just might be that they've forever earned the "Mesa Sucks!!!!" at least on Flightinfo...

TSA pilots didn't want to spend negotiating capital to ensure that GoJet pilots were on the same list as TSA pilots. Right or wrong, the decision was made and lawsuits were filed. Can you see the opportunity cost of those decisions?

Yes, Skywest and ASA should be on the same list. Yes, TSA and GoJet should be on the same list.
Yes, Republic did it right by uniting all their carriers, but what did it cost them?

Look at American Eagle... how many of you GoJet bashers were around when they were getting whipsawed among themselves (Simmons, Wings West, Executive, Flagship) before they put an end to whipsaw by accepting a 16 year contract with no-strike clause? 16 year contract!!!

These decisions aren't easy, and to many people, sacrifices might not be worth it at the time. TSA/GoJet situation is the perfect example of it.

To get back to the original point - RiddleEagle, I see you are an FO on a CRJ. How much would you be willing to give up to achieve that scope? Would you be willing to stay an FO on that RJ for 5 more years? Would you be willing to forego payraises? What about work rules? Would you be willing to give up any duty rigs if you have them? What would you give up to ensure you get an ironclad scope that will prevent any sort of a whipsaw in the future? If you're not willing to give up any negotiating capital, are you happy with the status quo? Which is the less of two evils?

Something to think about...

 

[theo]

Very true Riddle... but as you may or may not know about negotiations, how much negotiating capital are you willing to spend to ensure that?

Yeah, we were all pretty ticked off at Mesa for "lowering the bar." Hell, that bar sagging so low at Mesa is what ultimately cost me a nice, cush 6 figure Boeing job in Hawaii - they came in and undercut the crap out of us and ultimately put us out of business. But in the end, they bit the bullet and spent a sh*tload of negotiating capital to squash Freedom being a separate list. Was it worth it? What's their opportunity cost? Time will tell... it just might be that they've forever earned the "Mesa Sucks!!!!" at least on Flightinfo...

TSA pilots didn't want to spend negotiating capital to ensure that GoJet pilots were on the same list as TSA pilots. Right or wrong, the decision was made and lawsuits were filed. Can you see the opportunity cost of those decisions?

Yes, Skywest and ASA should be on the same list. Yes, TSA and GoJet should be on the same list.
Yes, Republic did it right by uniting all their carriers, but what did it cost them?

Look at American Eagle... how many of you GoJet bashers were around when they were getting whipsawed among themselves (Simmons, Wings West, Executive, Flagship) before they put an end to whipsaw by accepting a 16 year contract with no-strike clause? 16 year contract!!!

These decisions aren't easy, and to many people, sacrifices might not be worth it at the time. TSA/GoJet situation is the perfect example of it.

To get back to the original point - RiddleEagle, I see you are an FO on a CRJ. How much would you be willing to give up to achieve that scope? Would you be willing to stay an FO on that RJ for 5 more years? Would you be willing to forego payraises? What about work rules? Would you be willing to give up any duty rigs if you have them? What would you give up to ensure you get an ironclad scope that will prevent any sort of a whipsaw in the future? If you're not willing to give up any negotiating capital, are you happy with the status quo? Which is the less of two evils?

Something to think about...

Freight Dog, you have to stop posting. You are ruining the exhilerating high of brainlessly bashing GoJet. You are making enemies of all ALPA zealots who think they can have everything their way simply by employeeing intimidation, scare tactics and just plain shouting. If you don't stop soon we will never have another good GoJet bashing session....Jeeez..stop it already.

 

[siucavflight]

Mesa sucks.

 

[CX880]

You know its amazing that our unions havent learned from the original Continental, Freedom, Open Sky(British Airways alter ego) and Gojets etc. How ever you feel about the issue, same airline, different airlines what ever. The point is every contract signed from here on out should have a provision stating that any flying done for this company or any holding company that is set up by our company will be done by (insert pilot group name). If a holding company aquires (insert airline name) the pilot seniority list will be merged.

Skywest aquisition of ASA would have forced a merger of the pilot list taking away any possibility of whipsaw. TSA could have set up GoJets to get around the american scope issues but the pilots would have been on TSA master seniority list like RAH. Once delta gets done with the NWA aquisiton Mesaba, Comair, and Compass would be forced to merge seniority list.

******************** that we make more than TSA and it's an infinitely better operation. No thanks. TSA had their chance. If they didn't want the flying then someone has to fly it. The sad part is they totally got screwed by their decision for a NO. We make more with a better contract. Bad managment!!!!!

 

[~~~^~~~]

You know its amazing that our unions havent learned from the original Continental, Freedom, Open Sky(British Airways alter ego) and Gojets etc....

I'm not sure you know the history here. ALPA did try to keep the flying on the TSA list and tried to force a single carrier petition and lost. In losing, a terrible precedent was set, that an airline could justify an alter ego operation for the express intent of circumventing a scope clause.

Many pilots do not understand why scope matters on every level.

To fix this through collective bargaining will take giants of men. Right now there is not the political will to get that job done. However, the more "regional" pilots who make it to the majors, the better for changing the course of the unions.