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National seniority list.

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JoeMerchant

ASA pilot
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Posts
6,353
[FONT=&quot]AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]102ND REGULAR EXECUTIVE BOARD MEETING[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]September 9-10, 2008[/FONT]​


[FONT=&quot]SUBJECT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]National Seniority Protocol[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]SOURCE[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]UAL MEC[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]BACKGROUND INFORMATION[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]See proposed resolution.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]PROPOSED RESOLUTION[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]WHEREAS the Air Line Pilots Association has been at the forefront of pilot labor representation in the airline industry since 1931, and has consistently been the champion of safety protocols that assure our passengers have the safest transportation system possible, and[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]WHEREAS the 77 year history of ALPA is replete with examples of bold decisions made by ALPA leaders in order to assure that measures, necessary to protect the economic bargaining rights and professional interests of its members, have been instituted and that the best interests of the profession have been secured, and, [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]WHEREAS opportunities to make significant and enduring policy changes that enhance the professional opportunities of every ALPA member come along rarely and are often precipitated by industry destabilizing events like those brought to bear on ALPA members with The Airline Deregulation Act of 1978, the September 11th acts of war, the bankruptcy era, and the current manipulated inflation of the price of petroleum, and[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]WHEREAS the most unfulfilled professional benefit, recognized by all airline pilots and by ALPA members specifically, is the lack of a policy, derived from fundamental union principals, that enables and enforces the individual members’ ability to transfer their seniority, longevity, and operational experience as professionals from one airline employer to another, thereby allowing a manipulation of their entire career path by the actions of the very same capitalist cabal whose fundamental goal is to limit, degrade and minimize the essential role of pilots to the airline industry, and[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]WHEREAS parochial company loyalty, historically embraced by ALPA pioneers of previous eras, has been perverted and used against ALPA members as a capitalist leveraging tool that stifles the inherent right of professional pilots to collectively negotiate an economically sound and stable ratio of pay and work rules for identical job responsibilities using the continual underlying threat of losing the earned seniority benefits derived from their professional longevity at a particular airline while being compared to the economics of another airline (whipsawing), and[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]WHEREAS the fundamental principal of national seniority does not conflict with the current or future job prospects of pilots but instead extends a common system of advancement to be used at every ALPA carrier and bonds all ALPA pilots to the profession instead of to an individual airline; a national seniority list would assure a logical and rational adherence to a measurable, protected status of those pilots from a commonly defined starting point in their professional careers regardless of how many airlines may exist, regardless of the skill and economic acumen of the managements that run them, and regardless of the transient political influence of the day, and[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]WHEREAS the career security of any pilot who was able to transfer his seniority to another air carrier would liberate ALPA pilots and forever eliminate the ability of management to whipsaw or erode ALPA unity based on loss of job threats, economic fear or arbitrary merger awards, based on a perceived surviving carrier analogy, thus enabling ALPA to negotiate wages and work rules at all airlines based on the pilots’ collective evaluation of their true contribution and economic value to an air carrier,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Executive Board acknowledges this historic and momentous opportunity in time when several key air carrier contract amendable dates are so closely aligned, and which could be coordinated as part of this undertaking, that will launch a historic, new career security protocol for all ALPA pilots and by design, realign the true interests and career expectations of every pilot represented by ALPA both now and in the future, and[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the development of a national seniority protocol be assigned to a select National Seniority Committee (NSC) consisting of the President of ALPA; one pilot from each represented pilot group within group A, to be appointed by the Master Chairman of each MEC of the group; and one pilot representing each group designation: B1, B2, B3, B4 and C, each of whom shall be appointed by a consensus of the MEC Master Chairmen from each of the pilot groups represented within a classification; for a total of 11 members, and[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the National Seniority Committee will establish a single national seniority protocol that will be used to establish two separate lists reflecting the Canadian ALPA pilots and the United States ALPA pilots, and[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the protocol for an ALPA national seniority list will be developed by the NSC under a rigid timeline with a specific date for completion in 2009, and using a simple and transparent methodology that defines a starting point common to all professional air line pilots from which all seniority benefits and longevity will derive, and,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that without discrimination to any pilot, the NSC will set and fix a methodology recognizing “benchmarks of career achievement” with associated “exercise rights” in order to minimize unrealistic windfalls/detriments to any pilot unless and until those common benchmarks have been met, regardless of whether the benchmarks have been achieved at an ALPA carrier or not, and[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that upon completion of the protocol, the NSC will present a single, unified explanation of the developed protocol to all ALPA members, and all other represented professional pilot groups, using all available communication tools before preferably submitting the NSC proposal for ALPA-wide membership ratification, Roll Call by the governing body, or the applicable rules as stipulated in the ALPA Constitution and By Laws, and[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that upon adoption as ALPA policy by the proper authorizing internal ALPA mechanisms, the national seniority protocol will be enforced as of that date and no ALPA Collective Bargaining Agreement will be signed by the President of the Association without full inclusion of this policy as a part thereof.[/FONT]
 
Its about darn time!
 
Sounds like the UAL MEC is trying to take care of their pilots should they go belly up. Nothing wrong with that.

Your right.....The UAL pilot group wouldn't be doing this if they were still on top.....Even a broken clock is right twice a day...........They are doing it for their own benefit....We all need to support it however......
 
Good for UAL, good for the profession, lets all hope they can get it done. This could bring ALPA full circle, back to the founding ideals of the organization. That would be a great thing!
 
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Okay FO's. With a national seniority list your choice will be to work for a weakass carrier or stay in the right seat for life.

Very few FO's will ever upgrade at the premium carrier(s).

A national seniority list is the dumbest idea ever conceived by aviators.

A national seniority list failed miserably the only time it was implemented which was the Aeroflot conglomerate of the old Soviet Union.

One single national seniority list will only work with one single national airline.
 
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Okay FO's. With a national seniority list your choice will be work for a weakass carrier or stay in the right seat for life.

Very few FO's will ever upgrade at the premium carrier(s).

How many FO's will upgrade at UAL, AA, USAir, and DAL currently?....Time to allow lateral moves.....That will help everyone.....

Maybe we should build a system that doesn't rely on "upgrading at a premium carrier".....
 
Your right.....The UAL pilot group wouldn't be doing this if they were still on top.....Even a broken clock is right twice a day...........They are doing it for their own benefit....We all need to support it however......

Nah, I think we should NOT support it. Too bad if you decided to go somewhere else and that airline ends up in the toilet. Same goes when you decide to buy a house, or go to a certain college. If things go wrong, then it is too bad. Big NO vote here.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
How many FO's will upgrade at UAL, AA, USAir, and DAL currently?....Time to allow lateral moves.....That will help everyone.....

Maybe we should build a system that doesn't rely on "upgrading at a premium carrier".....

Yeah Joe, and your 15 years in the ATR-72 qualify you to move right into a Delta MD88 left seat. Nah, you are way too transparent. And maybe we could all hope for AGE 70 retirement too----yeah, and those UAL and USAir Easties would LOVE it, and take the left seat of every widebody out there. Sure Joe, that's the ticket! You are watching your own airline shrink (bye ATRs), and when that happens to anyone they start to think of "how they can stay in the game, and NOT START OVER like everyone else." This is desperation on the part of UAL pilots and pilots LIKE YOU JOE. Delta may be hiring soon, thrown in an app.

Were any of these pilots FORCED TO GO TO UNITED? Were they assigned to go to United? Were you assigned to go to ASA Joe? It was a choice. No other way to describe it. It may have been a BAD CHOICE. Too bad. You gotta roll the dice sometimes and make decisions. Be a big boy and live with it.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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Yeah Joe, and your 15 years in the ATR-72 qualify you to move right into a Delta MD88 left seat. Nah, you are way too transparent. And maybe we could all hope for AGE 70 retirement too----yeah, and those UAL and USAir Easties would LOVE it, and take the left seat of every widebody out there. Sure Joe, that's the ticket! You are watching your own airline shrink (bye ATRs), and when that happens to anyone they start to think of "how they can stay in the game, and NOT START OVER like everyone else." This is desperation on the part of UAL pilots and pilots LIKE YOU JOE. Delta may be hiring soon, thrown in an app.

Were any of these pilots FORCED TO GO TO UNITED? Were they assigned to go to United? Were you assigned to go to ASA Joe? It was a choice. No other way to describe it. It may have been a BAD CHOICE. Too bad. You gotta roll the dice sometimes and make decisions. Be a big boy and live with it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

That's essentialy it. A regional guy may see this as an opportunity to move up, but this looks like a pretty transparent attempt to take someone elses job if UAL craters.
 

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