National Seniority Protocol

[Nevets]

Nevets ,

I do agree with you...I just see many many problems....( not with this document) but pilots in general.

This clearly is for ALL professional pilots and will most likely include ALL of them....as do other national senority lists....including 135 carriers.

I am not sure how you would feel if a 135 pilot , met benchmarks before you and was able to bid your seat....what you would do or react? Heck it sounds good to me, I have been doing this for 10 years in military, 135 and 121......seems like it would work out well.

Yeah, pilots are their own worst enemy sometimes. Everybody has to be willing to sacrifice a little to do the right thing. And I beleive that this is the right thing to do. Its just too bad it hasn't been done already. Maybe its only something that can be implemented for new pilots going forward.

 

[lookin4better]

I'd be willing to bet that the "starting point" will not include time spent working at non-ALPA carriers or non-union jobs unless you define the "starting point" as ZERO seniority. I think the only fair way to recognize past seniority in an all ALPA list is to only recognize time spent as an active ALPA pilot.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that without discrimination to any pilot, the NSC will set and fix a methodology recognizing “benchmarks of career achievement” with associated “exercise rights” in order to minimize unrealistic windfalls/detriments to any pilot unless and until those common benchmarks have been met, regardless of whether the benchmarks have been achieved at an ALPA carrier or not, and





nope...

 

[lookin4better]

Yeah, pilots are their own worst enemy sometimes. Everybody has to be willing to sacrifice a little to do the right thing. And I beleive that this is the right thing to do. Its just too bad it hasn't been done already. Maybe its only something that can be implemented for new pilots going forward.

totally agree....everyone would probably hurt a bit at first.....but ONE list.....with ONE union equals the SAME pay all around for the SAME equipment....and THAT is a good thing.

 

[DoinTime]

[FONT=&quot]BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that without discrimination to any pilot, the NSC will set and fix a methodology recognizing “benchmarks of career achievement” with associated “exercise rights” in order to minimize unrealistic windfalls/detriments to any pilot unless and until those common benchmarks have been met, regardless of whether the benchmarks have been achieved at an ALPA carrier or not, and[/FONT]

This BIFR paragraph will surely be left on the cutting room floor. In order for this to pass any vote their will have to be some reciprocity by the other Unions. What do you think the odds are of the APA, NPA, or non-union shops recognizing ALPA seniority?

 

[Nevets]

This BIFR paragraph will surely be left on the cutting room floor. In order for this to pass any vote their will have to be some reciprocity by the other Unions. What do you think the odds are of the APA, NPA, or non-union shops recognizing ALPA seniority?

Those unions wont but when one of their members accepts a job at an ALPA carrier they will accept the ALPA policies as part of their condition of employment. Notice that the resolution also calls for this to be included in all future contracts.

So its not so much that any other union recognize the seniority. ALPA will include their pilots in this seniority protocol which they could decide to be a part of if they choose to work for an ALPA carrier.

 

[lookin4better]

This BIFR paragraph will surely be left on the cutting room floor. In order for this to pass any vote their will have to be some reciprocity by the other Unions. What do you think the odds are of the APA, NPA, or non-union shops recognizing ALPA seniority?

also agree with you....its ony of my main points..I think the point would be that everyone becomes ALPA based on benchmarks....hence ALPA wins with more members also ( I am sure this is figured somewhere) ......

also....say Delta MEC ( or any other alpa legacy carrier) and pilots dont like this or whatever agreement .....they simply remove ALPA as their union , and form their own union , ala APA and no one goes to DAL based on this list.....also a distinct possibility.

 

[JoeMerchant]

BRAVO!.....ALPA is starting to get the message.....Don't stop the pressure....IT IS WORKING.....

We must support this....

Rez....What do you think?

 

[DoinTime]

Those unions wont but when one of their members accepts a job at an ALPA carrier they will accept the ALPA policies as part of their condition of employment. Notice that the resolution also calls for this to be included in all future contracts.

So its not so much that any other union recognize the seniority. ALPA will include their pilots in this seniority protocol which they could decide to be a part of if they choose to work for an ALPA carrier.

I understand that the proposal does not include a provision for reciprocity but reciprocity will be needed for it to pass. Why would alpa pilots agree to accept outside pilots in with seniority when those other associations do not recognize the same provisions? That is just stupid.

If the UAL MEC is hung up on this part then the whole thing will surely fail.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I understand that the proposal does not include a provision for reciprocity but reciprocity will be needed for it to pass. Why would alpa pilots agree to accept outside pilots in with seniority when those other associations do not recognize the same provisions? That is just stupid.

If the UAL MEC is hung up on this part then the whole thing will surely fail.

What if you don't include non-ALPA pilots?.....Want to bet everyone else will become ALPA pretty quick.....They will be knocking down the door......

 

[DoinTime]

What if you don't include non-ALPA pilots?.....Want to bet everyone else will become ALPA pretty quick.....They will be knocking down the door......

This is twice in the same year I have agreed with Joe.

 

[JoeMerchant]

This is twice in the same year I have agreed with Joe.

:beer:
We can agree more.....Just requires a real union that pulls in the same direction....We don't have that right now....

If this pushes forward I will become the biggest ALPA cheerleader on here.....More than PCL_128 and Rez combined.....Does ALPA have it in them....That is the question......

What was the other thing you agreed with me on?

 

[Way2Broke]

Very much for this! It's about 30 years over due.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Very much for this! It's about 30 years over due.

AGREED......ALPA cheerleaders and sceptics....Time to unite and support this.....

Those of you who question ALPA need to get behind this and make your voice heard....Time to put up or shut up!

 

[Nevets]

I understand that the proposal does not include a provision for reciprocity but reciprocity will be needed for it to pass. Why would alpa pilots agree to accept outside pilots in with seniority when those other associations do not recognize the same provisions? That is just stupid.

If the UAL MEC is hung up on this part then the whole thing will surely fail.

Then contact your MEC chairman and tell him how you feel.

 

[Poahi]

What if you don't include non-ALPA pilots?.....Want to bet everyone else will become ALPA pretty quick.....They will be knocking down the door......

Are you sure about that? Something tells me that SWAPA won't be breaking down ALPA's door anytime soon.... Why would someone at SWA vote to surrender his relative seniority to someone who hops over from a near bankrupt legacy carrier?