rumors from both NWA and DAL about 717

[flying zephyr]

I have heard rumors from friends at both DAL and NWA about the creation(NWA) of a 717 training program and the possible if not probable acquisition(DAL) of 717s, any truth or validity for these rumors or is it all speculation?

 

[flap operator]

Where are they going to get them from? They're no longer in production.

 

[Jamis81]

If its 717's they want, I guess its a good thing that NWA owns a large part of midwest...

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Interesting times. I think that our neighbor on Concourse C would be willing to let a few go.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Heck if they take MEH's jets I am sure that there will be quite the fight to put them on the combined list.

 

[FDJ2]

Heck if they take MEH's jets I am sure that there will be quite the fight to put them on the combined list.

Why? We're not merging with MEH. We've taken delivery of 17 AA B757s and there has been no fight to put AA pilots on the combined list. World took delivery of most all of our MD-11s and there was no fight to combine the lists. NWA has some old EAL DC-9s and there was no fight to put Eastern pilots on the list. Airlines sell aircraft to other airlines all the time with no requirement to merge work forces.

 

[funnyman12]

Well the rumor over here on concourse C is that up to 25 additional 717's have been added to our certificate. The captain I am flying with knows some Airtran FAA guy that claims the rumor is true. Also there have been numerous articles claiming Boeing will do everything they can to keep Airtran alive, including extremely cheap leases on 717's that are becoming available. (Airtran leases 77 717's from Boeing) Unless there we a significant amount of 717's available, I wouldn't think it would be a benfefit a non 717 carrier (Delta/NWA).

 

[jehtplane]

Well the rumor over here on concourse C is that up to 25 additional 717's have been added to our certificate. The captain I am flying with knows some Airtran FAA guy that claims the rumor is true. Also there have been numerous articles claiming Boeing will do everything they can to keep Airtran alive, including extremely cheap leases on 717's that are becoming available. (Airtran leases 77 717's from Boeing) Unless there we a significant amount of 717's available, I wouldn't think it would be a benfefit a non 717 carrier (Delta/NWA).

Gotta love the I know somebody who knows somebody information. That is about as reliable as the info from the NPA. Oh yeah we just sold a 717 to hawaii.

 

[meanstreak]

Had an FAA jumpseater telling me Airtran applied for Cat III certification on 15 717's. Somethings going on.

 

[Kharma Police]

Well the rumor over here on concourse C is that up to 25 additional 717's have been added to our certificate. The captain I am flying with knows some Airtran FAA guy that claims the rumor is true. Also there have been numerous articles claiming Boeing will do everything they can to keep Airtran alive, including extremely cheap leases on 717's that are becoming available. (Airtran leases 77 717's from Boeing) Unless there we a significant amount of 717's available, I wouldn't think it would be a benfefit a non 717 carrier (Delta/NWA).

Thanks for the laugh!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

FDJ true, but those are airframes being sold. We could do that as well, but it is a little different with the transaction equates to the closure of the company.

 

[jehtplane]

Had an FAA jumpseater telling me Airtran applied for Cat III certification on 15 717's. Somethings going on.

How do you apply for CAT III certification on airplanes you do not own or lease? That would be a neat trick.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

Mesa Sucks!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Why? We're not merging with MEH. We've taken delivery of 17 AA B757s and there has been no fight to put AA pilots on the combined list. World took delivery of most all of our MD-11s and there was no fight to combine the lists. NWA has some old EAL DC-9s and there was no fight to put Eastern pilots on the list. Airlines sell aircraft to other airlines all the time with no requirement to merge work forces.

.....possibly because it would be the right thing to do if you want to build solidarity and a true union....Nevermind....You're right....This "association" wouldn't know solidarity if it bit them in the A$$....

 

[NuGuy]

.....possibly because it would be the right thing to do if you want to build solidarity and a true union....Nevermind....You're right....This "association" wouldn't know solidarity if it bit them in the A$$....

There are already mutually acceptable plans in place for MEH, as well as Compass.

Nu

 

[vprMatrix]

.....possibly because it would be the right thing to do if you want to build solidarity and a true union....Nevermind....You're right....This "association" wouldn't know solidarity if it bit them in the A$$....

ALPA doesn't buy and sell airplanes or pilots.

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ true, but those are airframes being sold. We could do that as well, but it is a little different with the transaction equates to the closure of the company.

That would depend on the nature of the transaction and the contractual language in the respective PWAs.

 

[JoeMerchant]

ALPA doesn't buy and sell airplanes or pilots.

....and each "unit" within ALPA does what is best for themselves.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

That would depend on the nature of the transaction and the contractual language in the respective PWAs.

....as opposed to a real union that takes care of other members of said union.....

We only take care of each other if the contract says we have to.......

 

[vprMatrix]

....and each "unit" within ALPA does what is best for themselves.....

Each "unit" is made up of pilots that want their airline to succeed. This means other airlines wont succeed. It's the free market. There is no job guarantee in any industry even heavily unionized industries.

How would you handle the pilots of a dying airline that is selling its aircraft or goes chapter 7 or is no longer competitive and must shrink.

 

[~~~^~~~]

.....possibly because it would be the right thing to do if you want to build solidarity and a true union....Nevermind....You're right....This "association" wouldn't know solidarity if it bit them in the A$$....

Joe... 26+ of your CRJ 700/900's went to SkyWest. Umm, no merger there. (I know it wasn't your fault, but your arguing against ALPA on the SkyWest vote did not help)

Folks that live in glass houses ....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe... 26+ of your CRJ 700/900's went to SkyWest. Umm, no merger there. (I know it wasn't your fault, but your arguing against ALPA on the SkyWest vote did not help)

Folks that live in glass houses ....

You have changed Fins......

1. The "union" that you want me to support said those 900's were never coming here anyway....Are you saying they lied? If so, do you really expect me to support a union that lies to me?

2. A merger of lists is more likely without ALPA than with it.

3. Skywest voting in ALPA would not have changed anything....

4. We negotiated on the behalf of Skywest pilots a provision to bring them on board if a certain number of Skywest aircraft are transferred to this side.

5. Why don't you support bringing on Midwest pilots if you take their aircraft?

....I think your wearing that double breasted coat too tight.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Each "unit" is made up of pilots that want their airline to succeed. This means other airlines wont succeed. It's the free market. There is no job guarantee in any industry even heavily unionized industries.

How would you handle the pilots of a dying airline that is selling its aircraft or goes chapter 7 or is no longer competitive and must shrink.

I would advocate bringing them on board....That would be the right thing to do...

However you are right.....It is everyman for themself in this "association"....Don't look to me for help....

 

[clippyrip]

NWA/Delta threads free from JoeMerchants BS -- 0
Another hijacked thread by JoeMerchant -- 3622

 

[Occam's Razor]

....as opposed to a real union that takes care of other members of said union.....

"Takes care of..."? Ah, the delicious irony of someone who'd fly my jet for less than me, lamenting the Scope I put in place to prevent him from doing so.

We only take care of each other if the contract says we have to.......

Exactly! Since YOUR contract doesn't prevent you from undercutting my job, I gotta do it with mine.

Pity.

 

[~~~^~~~]

You have changed Fins......

1. The "union" that you want me to support said those 900's were never coming here anyway....Are you saying they lied? If so, do you really expect me to support a union that lies to me?

2. A merger of lists is more likely without ALPA than with it.

3. Skywest voting in ALPA would not have changed anything....

4. We negotiated on the behalf of Skywest pilots a provision to bring them on board if a certain number of Skywest aircraft are transferred to this side.

5. Why don't you support bringing on Midwest pilots if you take their aircraft?

....I think your wearing that double breasted coat too tight.....

*Thread Hijack Alert*
1. If they said that, then, yes, they lied. I don't recall such an announcement being made. The MEC Chairman and Captain's Rep did not tell me that.
2. US Air? How do you back up that statement?
3. I disagree and that is probably one big reason why the SkyWest pilots voted down ALPA. They liked the junior upgrades and did not want to have to integrate senior pilots from ASA.
4. I'm sure they are grateful
5. Who said I don't?

 

[Occam's Razor]

Don't look to me for help....

More irony!

Had you bothered to show up for your job when you were elected by your fellow pilots to ALPA office, perhaps your declaration would have some relevance.

You didn't.

It doesn't.

Perhaps if you'd put one-tenth the effort into your ALPA duties as you did suing your fellow pilots, your "I won't help!" sentiment would have some impact.

 

[vprMatrix]

I would advocate bringing them on board....That would be the right thing to do...

However you are right.....It is everyman for themself in this "association"....Don't look to me for help....

Ok. Lets bring them on board.


Who do you bring?


How do you convince management to offer employment to these pilots?


Where do you put them on the seniority list?


In the case of Delta/NW what if DC9s are being parked and the 717s are replacement a/c.


Should the 717 pilots displace and furlough Delta/NW in order to accommodate the 717 pilots who's jobs have been discontinued.


While your goal is lofty it is impractical if not impossible.

 

[KCPilot]

Define Union

.....possibly because it would be the right thing to do if you want to build solidarity and a true union....Nevermind....You're right....This "association" wouldn't know solidarity if it bit them in the A$$....

Do you know what a union is:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A trade union or labour union is an organisation of workers who have banded together to achieve common goals in key areas such as wages, hours, and working conditions, forming a cartel of labor. The trade union, through its leadership, bargains with the employer on behalf of union members (rank and file members) and negotiates labor contracts with employers. This may include the negotiation of wages, work rules, complaint procedures, rules governing hiring, firing and promotion of workers, benefits, workplace safety and policies. The agreements negotiated by the union leaders are binding on the rank and file members and the employer and in some cases on other non-member workers. Unions are notorious for creating fair wages and decent working conditions in the market.

We work for our AIRLINE not ALPA!

 

[michael707767]

I would advocate bringing them on board....That would be the right thing to do.....

so you think anytime an aircraft is bought/sold, pilots should go along with it? Should Delta pilots have gone to World when our MD-11s ended up there? What about the 767s that were parked and ended up at Hawaiin? What about the recent 757s that we got from AA, which weren't really from AA but from a lessor? See where I am going with this? Aircraft are bought and sold all the time. If you mandate that pilots accompany the aircraft in all situations, you will force some pilots into a bad deal.

I agree with whomever said it depends on the contract of the two airlines involved. If, for example, Delta were to get 717s from Midwest and neither our contract has a fragmentation clause that would require pilots go along, then sorry, but they don't get to come along.