rumors from both NWA and DAL about 717

[~~~^~~~]

.....possibly because it would be the right thing to do if you want to build solidarity and a true union....Nevermind....You're right....This "association" wouldn't know solidarity if it bit them in the A$$....

Joe... 26+ of your CRJ 700/900's went to SkyWest. Umm, no merger there. (I know it wasn't your fault, but your arguing against ALPA on the SkyWest vote did not help)

Folks that live in glass houses ....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe... 26+ of your CRJ 700/900's went to SkyWest. Umm, no merger there. (I know it wasn't your fault, but your arguing against ALPA on the SkyWest vote did not help)

Folks that live in glass houses ....

You have changed Fins......

1. The "union" that you want me to support said those 900's were never coming here anyway....Are you saying they lied? If so, do you really expect me to support a union that lies to me?

2. A merger of lists is more likely without ALPA than with it.

3. Skywest voting in ALPA would not have changed anything....

4. We negotiated on the behalf of Skywest pilots a provision to bring them on board if a certain number of Skywest aircraft are transferred to this side.

5. Why don't you support bringing on Midwest pilots if you take their aircraft?

....I think your wearing that double breasted coat too tight.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Each "unit" is made up of pilots that want their airline to succeed. This means other airlines wont succeed. It's the free market. There is no job guarantee in any industry even heavily unionized industries.

How would you handle the pilots of a dying airline that is selling its aircraft or goes chapter 7 or is no longer competitive and must shrink.

I would advocate bringing them on board....That would be the right thing to do...

However you are right.....It is everyman for themself in this "association"....Don't look to me for help....

 

[clippyrip]

NWA/Delta threads free from JoeMerchants BS -- 0
Another hijacked thread by JoeMerchant -- 3622

 

[Occam's Razor]

....as opposed to a real union that takes care of other members of said union.....

"Takes care of..."? Ah, the delicious irony of someone who'd fly my jet for less than me, lamenting the Scope I put in place to prevent him from doing so.

We only take care of each other if the contract says we have to.......

Exactly! Since YOUR contract doesn't prevent you from undercutting my job, I gotta do it with mine.

Pity.

 

[~~~^~~~]

You have changed Fins......

1. The "union" that you want me to support said those 900's were never coming here anyway....Are you saying they lied? If so, do you really expect me to support a union that lies to me?

2. A merger of lists is more likely without ALPA than with it.

3. Skywest voting in ALPA would not have changed anything....

4. We negotiated on the behalf of Skywest pilots a provision to bring them on board if a certain number of Skywest aircraft are transferred to this side.

5. Why don't you support bringing on Midwest pilots if you take their aircraft?

....I think your wearing that double breasted coat too tight.....

*Thread Hijack Alert*
1. If they said that, then, yes, they lied. I don't recall such an announcement being made. The MEC Chairman and Captain's Rep did not tell me that.
2. US Air? How do you back up that statement?
3. I disagree and that is probably one big reason why the SkyWest pilots voted down ALPA. They liked the junior upgrades and did not want to have to integrate senior pilots from ASA.
4. I'm sure they are grateful
5. Who said I don't?

 

[Occam's Razor]

Don't look to me for help....

More irony!

Had you bothered to show up for your job when you were elected by your fellow pilots to ALPA office, perhaps your declaration would have some relevance.

You didn't.

It doesn't.

Perhaps if you'd put one-tenth the effort into your ALPA duties as you did suing your fellow pilots, your "I won't help!" sentiment would have some impact.

 

[vprMatrix]

I would advocate bringing them on board....That would be the right thing to do...

However you are right.....It is everyman for themself in this "association"....Don't look to me for help....

Ok. Lets bring them on board.


Who do you bring?


How do you convince management to offer employment to these pilots?


Where do you put them on the seniority list?


In the case of Delta/NW what if DC9s are being parked and the 717s are replacement a/c.


Should the 717 pilots displace and furlough Delta/NW in order to accommodate the 717 pilots who's jobs have been discontinued.


While your goal is lofty it is impractical if not impossible.

 

[KCPilot]

Define Union

.....possibly because it would be the right thing to do if you want to build solidarity and a true union....Nevermind....You're right....This "association" wouldn't know solidarity if it bit them in the A$$....

Do you know what a union is:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A trade union or labour union is an organisation of workers who have banded together to achieve common goals in key areas such as wages, hours, and working conditions, forming a cartel of labor. The trade union, through its leadership, bargains with the employer on behalf of union members (rank and file members) and negotiates labor contracts with employers. This may include the negotiation of wages, work rules, complaint procedures, rules governing hiring, firing and promotion of workers, benefits, workplace safety and policies. The agreements negotiated by the union leaders are binding on the rank and file members and the employer and in some cases on other non-member workers. Unions are notorious for creating fair wages and decent working conditions in the market.

We work for our AIRLINE not ALPA!

 

[michael707767]

I would advocate bringing them on board....That would be the right thing to do.....

so you think anytime an aircraft is bought/sold, pilots should go along with it? Should Delta pilots have gone to World when our MD-11s ended up there? What about the 767s that were parked and ended up at Hawaiin? What about the recent 757s that we got from AA, which weren't really from AA but from a lessor? See where I am going with this? Aircraft are bought and sold all the time. If you mandate that pilots accompany the aircraft in all situations, you will force some pilots into a bad deal.

I agree with whomever said it depends on the contract of the two airlines involved. If, for example, Delta were to get 717s from Midwest and neither our contract has a fragmentation clause that would require pilots go along, then sorry, but they don't get to come along.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Ouch. Thats gonna leave a mark

More irony!

Had you bothered to show up for your job when you were elected by your fellow pilots to ALPA office, perhaps your declaration would have some relevance.

You didn't.

It doesn't.

Perhaps if you'd put one-tenth the effort into your ALPA duties as you did suing your fellow pilots, your "I won't help!" sentiment would have some impact.

 

[jetflier]

Soooo,

Getting back to the origional question of the thread, "is NWA/DAL aquiring 717's" ?

 

[Occam's Razor]

Soooo,

Getting back to the origional question of the thread, "is NWA/DAL aquiring 717's" ?

Until you see a B717 towbar at your gate...don't believe it.

The "100-seater" isn't settled. Anderson is gonna leverage all the manufacturers he can...starting with Boeing over the B787 delays.

 

[Ty Webb]

If AirTrans gets 717's, it could be to free up 737's for sale.

Rumor, innuendos . . . Film at 11


TW

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Quite true and the folks in Canada need a North American Launch customer for the C-90.

 

[~~~^~~~]

If AirTrans gets 717's, it could be to free up 737's for sale.

Rumor, innuendos . . . Film at 11

TW

Are they going to do anything to increase the 717's range? I thought it was realistically a 1,200nm jet. For comparison the 737-700 is 5,500 miles. Wouldn't replacing the 737 limit AirTran's ability to fly trans-con's out of Atlanta?

Seems like it would be straightforward to add fuel capacity using the MD80's configuration, and I know there was talk of a 717-300 before Boeing pulled the plug on Long Beach.

The 717 is a nice product for the pax. IFE would make it a better product for longer legs.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

More irony!

Had you bothered to show up for your job when you were elected by your fellow pilots to ALPA office, perhaps your declaration would have some relevance.

You didn't.

It doesn't.

Perhaps if you'd put one-tenth the effort into your ALPA duties as you did suing your fellow pilots, your "I won't help!" sentiment would have some impact.

Zing! But then again, the rjdc motto, "sue if you can't get what you want."

 

[ACL65PILOT]

FWIW Midex is putting first class seats back in their jets by the fall. It will be configured like all other airlines. They are terming it Midwest Class.

 

[flyipilot]

Well the rumor over here on concourse C is that up to 25 additional 717's have been added to our certificate. The captain I am flying with knows some Airtran FAA guy that claims the rumor is true. Also there have been numerous articles claiming Boeing will do everything they can to keep Airtran alive, including extremely cheap leases on 717's that are becoming available. (Airtran leases 77 717's from Boeing) Unless there we a significant amount of 717's available, I wouldn't think it would be a benfefit a non 717 carrier (Delta/NWA).

Boeing does not give a rats ass if Airtran stays alive or dies. They have their own problems and they make FAR MORE money in the government and foreign market than what a tiny non profitable airline in Atlanta can do.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Flyi,

Despite your post being an unwarranted insult, you are correct that Boeing is not focused on their US customers. Right now the money is in the big airplanes being sold to rapidly expanding Mid East carriers (much of which makes no economic sense) and beating AirBus in the developing nations. While every customer is important, US business is planned to be less than an third of their order book. It also appears Boeing is willing to cede the 100 to 130 seat market under the concept that small airplanes = small profits.

I remember when Ford's mantra was small cars = small profits. Now they are on the path to bankruptcy and Toyota is the World's largest manufacturer.

Boeing is teaching the Japanese how to build the most critical airframe components and having to deal with quality control problems due to the outsourcing to every corner of the globe.

Boeing designs a great product, but they seem less interested in actually building it.