rumors from both NWA and DAL about 717

[Heavy Set]

uh...FlyWolf is not an rj guy, he flys for Midex... probably one of the classiest guys on this board - he remained very level headed during our whole AirTran/Midex merger stuff.

I can see why Flywolf would think this stuff up, his airline is furloughing people out of seniority. He is feeling helpless, and that is understandable. I doubt Dalpa would allow another airline with planes larger than their own RJs to fly for them, but I don't know? I just can't see Dalpa allowing that, and I know plenty of Delta pilots that would agree.(I don't fly for DL anyway) I have a feeling Midwest will be gone sooner than later unfortunately. Good luck to those guys.

 

[FlyWolf]

TV9Driver, thanks, I still think we would have been much better with Airtran than NWA/TPG.

Heavy Set, even though Midwest is furloughing it is NOT out of seniority, your info is wrong.

My initial post was, Midwest is being re-aligned, I didn't say anything about Midwest continuing to fly 717.

Peace and good luck to all.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The key to that is what you posted operate separately. If Mid Ex started to carry DAL passengers then the scope would kick in. The only way around that would be a code share. If a DAL rep said that I would love to know the name because I would call them out.

I agree with what you and General wrote.

NWA and MidEx are competitors. Unless that changes I don't see why MidEx's 717's would be any different than AirTran's, or TWA's, or Hawaiian's.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

There is a lot more to unfold as it pertains to Midex.

AAI can want to at as many airplanes as they want. Fact is that NWA aligned itself with Midex for this very reason.

 

[flying zephyr]

I'm a little confused, doesn't NW own 47% of YX? To say that they are competitors when we all know that they are at least one of the men behind the curtain pulling the strings is "nuts". Even NW guys will tell you if DAL hadn't come in the picture MEH would be flying around in red tails. How is that the same as Airtran, or any other carrier

 

[flying zephyr]

It amazes me how the attitude changes toward approx 400 pilots when all of a sudden, we are carrying "your Pax". Did you know almost every one of YXs flight numbers also have a NW flight number, I have yet to hear complaints from YX or NW pilots about that.
I guess unlike most of you I hope the best for all concerned. I owe many a NW and DAL pilot gratitude for the jumpseat and have nothing but good things to say about them. That being said the fact that we are supposed to be united for a common cause means not much to you.
Are you aware of the payrates that they are offering us? Sixteen year capt at $87/hour and 8 yr FO at $37/hr. I would walk than fly for that not just for me, but if DAL, NWA, MEH, TPG succeed in getting that then what do you think will happen to your paycheck! United we stand, divided management wins! I am sorry that you feel this is all about you, this is bigger than us all and if we don't look at the big picture you can kiss it all goodbye. God bless you all, but maybe it's time to look in the mirror

 

[hockeypilot44]

If I had my way, Midwest would be merged in with NWA and Delta or at the very least stapled with longevity and fences. This is what started the downfall of our industry. Everyone is out for him/herself, and in the end, everyone loses out because of it. I am guessing that some time down the road, every single Midwest pilot will be looking for work.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Did you know almost every one of YXs flight numbers also have a NW flight number....

Are you aware of the payrates that they are offering us? Sixteen year capt at $87/hour and 8 yr FO at $37/hr.

Frankly, there is a lot more information needed to figure this out. I was not aware of the expanded codeshare between NWA and MidEx until I just looked it up... and I doubt DAL has an interest in adding the 717 to the property. The E175 and CRJ900's are 90 seat jets (with 76 seats in them). There is not enough justification for a 717 program when MD90's are much more capable for the same (or less) acquisition cost.

Those pay rates would make even a staple job a significant increase. Not that I'm suggesting, or advocating anything.

Any NWA pilots' perspectives on this?

 

[hockeypilot44]

Frankly, there is a lot more information needed to figure this out. I was not aware of the expanded codeshare between NWA and MidEx until I just looked it up... and I doubt DAL has an interest in adding the 717 to the property. The E175 and CRJ900's are 90 seat jets (with 76 seats in them). There is not enough justification for a 717 program when MD90's are much more capable for the same (or less) acquisition cost.

Those pay rates would make even a staple job a significant increase. Not that I'm suggesting, or advocating anything.

Any NWA pilots' perspectives on this?

Does my opinion not count? The Midwest captains have extremely competitive salaries with Northwest and Delta. A lot of them make more than Delta/NWA narrow body captains. The Midwest first officer pay scale is less, but it still puts regional wages to shame. I would have no problem merging them into the new DAL/NWA list. This is not some fly-by-night carrier. It is established and has been around for a while. It is just an extremely small carrier that is being mismanaged and squeezed by Northwest and Airtran.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Your opinion counts and has been noted.

For the record, I don't have an opinion on this and mine does not count. I'm just trying to learn about this situation and am curious what the NWA pilots' take on this is.

Not that it will happen anyway. I don't expect the 717 to be flown by Delta. Delta has enough on it's plate already.

 

[wings421]

Deleted

 

[jetflier]

Your opinion counts and has been noted.

For the record, I don't have an opinion on this and mine does not count. I'm just trying to learn about this situation and am curious what the NWA pilots' take on this is.

Not that it will happen anyway. I don't expect the 717 to be flown by Delta. Delta has enough on it's plate already.

Since creating the equity stake in Midwest, NWA has been code sharing and putting pressure on Air Tran's growth plans at MKE.
As we move closer to the official DAL/NWA merger at the end of 2008, Midwest is becomming weaker and much smaller.
In my opinion, Midwest will appeal to the DOJ as well as DAL/NWA to let them help the Midwest employees by absorbing them and saving employee jobs. All this with the blessing of a pending election, making the local incumbents in MKE look like winners. And, DAL/NWA win the prize...
(this was most likely the master plan to get it aproved by the DOJ)

 

[SpauldingSmails]

A little off subject, but have A318's ever been discussed at NWA as DC9 replacements?

 

[nwaredtail]

A little off subject, but have A318's ever been discussed at NWA as DC9 replacements?

Yes, as well as the 717, CRJ new product. IMO, there will never be a DC-9 replacement. Just more E-175's and CRJ-900's. DAL and NWA pilots have shown a willingness to give up scope at every contract, regardless at how they put the lipstick on it.

History is tough to challenge.

 

[michael707767]

DAL and NWA pilots have shown a willingness to give up scope at every contract, regardless at how they put the lipstick on it.

wow, someone who understands what is going on.

 

[Occam's Razor]

History is tough to challenge.

Sometimes...it's even tough to remember correctly.

Did Scope just "appear"...or was it gained by those pilot groups over time? Give me a Labor-friendly NMB, and a Dept of Labor that helps Labor...and you'll see a recovery of what we've lost, and more gains.

Cuz THAT'S our history.

 

[Tref]

A little off subject, but have A318's ever been discussed at NWA as DC9 replacements?

They looked at it, but decided that with the cost and fuel burns so close to the 319 you'd be better off just getting more 319s and flying with some extra empty seats. Obviously you'd have more flexibility that way as well.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

They looked at it, but decided that with the cost and fuel burns so close to the 319 you'd be better off just getting more 319s and flying with some extra empty seats. Obviously you'd have more flexibility that way as well.

Thanks. Seems to make sense.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Sometimes...it's even tough to remember correctly.

Did Scope just "appear"...or was it gained by those pilot groups over time? Give me a Labor-friendly NMB, and a Dept of Labor that helps Labor...and you'll see a recovery of what we've lost, and more gains.

Cuz THAT'S our history.

Occam, the scope that defines our profession was negotiated by an ALPA that had a religious zeal to stamp out alter ego replacements.

Today the majority of our membership apparently wants this flying to be outsourced. How else do you explain ALPA's agreement to displace DC9 flying to Compass? How else do you explain the ratification of this outsourcing by both the NWA and the Delta pilots?

Our scope problem is first, internal. We are not even enquiring about fixing it when seated at the table.

Do you agree that the consensus at the grass roots level needs to change first? Do you think there is support for really taking it back?

~~~^~~~

 

[~~~^~~~]

They looked at it, but decided that with the cost and fuel burns so close to the 319 you'd be better off just getting more 319s and flying with some extra empty seats. Obviously you'd have more flexibility that way as well.

Apparently there is interest in a A319/320 with the Pratt GTF's. AirBus is already started on the certification and a re-fit will probably be offered to operators of the aircraft. I'm not sure how long it would take to pay off the engine swap, looks like the fuel savings would be about $1.4 to $2.0 million per airframe per year if they hit the 15% number relative to a PW6000.

In my crazy way of thinking, why not hang a pair on the back of a DC9-50, or MD88?

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...x?guid={78772766-E41A-4FE5-A2CD-F239A0EFA16B}

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...pratt-whitneys-obsession-with-the-geared.html