Integration Day

[RTRHD]

Oh, man spare me. Did they have any lunar landings or space walks mixed in there also???

It is the facts. No LOI's just twice the time.

 

[gutshotdraw]

gutshotdraw,
Is the integration agreement that you talk about LOA 01-013 that is in the 2007 CBA? Or is there a different agreement that supercedes that LOA?

The LOA from IBB last year is a framework for the integration. It spells out DOH seniority, no system flush of position, pay protection if current salary is higher than CBA, among other items. But there will have to be another document put in place that governs the specifics. You can't just flip the switch overnight. The most important item I expect to see is the "drop-dead" date after which upgrades and transitions within the Gulfstream program cease and company-wide seniority award takes over.

I'm told that document is still being negotiated. At some point in the future, a representative from the company, with NJASAP's blessing, will be assigned to Hilton Head to implement the terms of the agreement. That process will take upwards of a year once the official announcement is made.

Since the intention (at least for the next several years) is to continue to operate NJI as a separate entity, there will likely be some exceptions to the CBA that BOTH the company AND NJASAP agree to in order to smooth the transition.

I'm waiting for the details of this agreement to be published before I start worrying about anything.

 

[RNObased]

It is the facts. No LOI's just twice the time.

And this means what????? Nothing it is just a number IMHO. I have flown guys that had 3000hrs and were razor sharp and guys that had 10,000 that I won't put my worst enemy on without adult supervision.

 

[RTRHD]

And this means what?????

It means 2500 hrs for NJA and 5000 hrs for NJI. Jesus do I have to explain everything. Christ it's like playing cards with your brother-in-laws kids. :beer:

 

[RNObased]

It means 2500 hrs for NJA and 5000 hrs for NJI. Jesus do I have to explain everything. Christ it's like playing cards with your brother-in-laws kids. :beer:

How many people do you think are getting in the door at NJA with 2500hrs?? No one.

Don't worry your min hiring numbers won't mean much very soon anyway.

Also RTRHD, I realize 5000 is more then 2500. Anymore smart a$$ comments???

 

[Partyfoul]

What's is anyone's opinion of the NJI FO's that are senior to the most junior Capt at NJA? No bypass pay for them I guess would be fair also??

 

[YankeeEcho]

What's is anyone's opinion of the NJI FO's that are senior to the most junior Capt at NJA? No bypass pay for them I guess would be fair also??

Bypass pay has never existed at NJI and not expected. My understanding is that it is gone forever at NJA after the last contract.

 

[Diesel]

I haven't seen a 4.2 GIV in a while I thought we switched them.

People ask me when I'll make GIV capt I tell them probably in 20 years or so. Because even though I'm a A/I FO 800 people above me have to upgrade in the IV before I can bid it.

There are no shortcuts. That is what is going to make this integration work.

Jeeze I go away and it turns into a 6 pager.

 

[o2bflyn]

Just a personal observation. I find it interesting that some of the same people that say there is nothing special about flying the G-whatevers would be the same people that would leave their current assignment at the drop of a hat to go fly one for NJI. Would you all be making the same arguements about GIV/V's if you flew one? Interesting.

 

[G200_PILOT]

Just a personal observation. I find it interesting that some of the same people that say there is nothing special about flying the G-whatevers would be the same people that would leave their current assignment at the drop of a hat to go fly one for NJI. Would you all be making the same arguements about GIV/V's if you flew one? Interesting.

That's a fair question. You've heard me say that there's nothing special about a G-IV when it comes to flying one. The basic fact is that a jet is a jet. Sure it's different from a Lear 25 but that's what a 4 week type rating school is for. I'm one of the guys that will be bidding the IV once the two sides merge. I won't leave "NJA" to go fly one. I like the IV because of the mission and I need to serve my time in the IV before bidding the V. It has nothing to do with any type of "wow" factor. Trust me, it's all the same when you're sitting there for 5 or 6 hours. That and there's those cute FAs.

 

[G200_PILOT]

I think this is more than enough time to upgrade all the NJI FO's to include the NJA guys that came over.

Just my guess!!!!

That's probably going to be a bad guess. Again, RTS may have hinted towards this in order to give you guys that good ol' "warm and fuzzy" feeling but this is just another one of those times where you're being misled. Remember that per the LOA, 1 out of 3 captain slots will be filled by an NJA pilot. How many FOs does NJI have? 100? 200? I seriously don't know so please tell me. If its 100, that means RTS has to be willing to "upgrade" 133 guys before the merger is complete. At an average cost of lets say $50,000.00 per crew member, he'd be dishing out $6.7 million to keep you guys "happy."

Yeah, you're right, all the NJI FOs will probably get upgraded prior to the merger. What's $6.7 million when it comes to you golden boyz?

 

[o2bflyn]

That's a fair question. You've heard me say that there's nothing special about a G-IV when it comes to flying one. The basic fact is that a jet is a jet. Sure it's different from a Lear 25 but that's what a 4 week type rating school is for. I'm one of the guys that will be bidding the IV once the two sides merge. I won't leave "NJA" to go fly one. I like the IV because of the mission and I need to serve my time in the IV before bidding the V. It has nothing to do with any type of "wow" factor. Trust me, it's all the same when you're sitting there for 5 or 6 hours. That and there's those cute FAs.

They can make or break a trip can't they.

I hope you don't think that was aimed at you specifically. It was more of a "question to the masses" as it were, but thanks for the response. I could not agreee with you more.

 

[RTRHD]

Also RTRHD, I realize 5000 is more then 2500. Anymore smart a$$ comments???

RNO I am just rattling yall's chain. We obviously have nothing to say about any of this. So none of this really matters. But it is fun to spin you guys up. Besides my smart a$$ comments are all I have,think about it have I ever really contributed to an intelligent conversation.:cartman:

 

[G200_PILOT]

No problem at all. The Gulfstream is a beautiful airplane. I'll never deny that. The problem that I've always had is the attitude of typical Gulfstream pilot. It's even worse than a Citation X pilot's ego!!!

Going to school for a G-IV is no different than going to school for a Falcon. Except for the fact that the Falcon is a better built airplane of course. Learning the procedures on how to fly into the depths of China or Russia is no different than learning how to use an HF and reporting points for the first time. Did we learn it in flight school during our private training? No, of course not. But as long as you have a reputable training department, it won't be an issue. This guy that's beating his chest about me not knowing how to fly inside China had to learn it as well. Did he pass his training because he's a rocket scientist or is he just a normal pilot that got good training? My guess is that he's no rocket scientist. Sorry...

 

[gutshotdraw]

That's probably going to be a bad guess. Again, RTS may have hinted towards this in order to give you guys that good ol' "warm and fuzzy" feeling but this is just another one of those times where you're being misled. Remember that per the LOA, 1 out of 3 captain slots will be filled by an NJA pilot. How many FOs does NJI have? 100? 200? I seriously don't know so please tell me. If its 100, that means RTS has to be willing to "upgrade" 133 guys before the merger is complete. At an average cost of lets say $50,000.00 per crew member, he'd be dishing out $6.7 million to keep you guys "happy."

Yeah, you're right, all the NJI FOs will probably get upgraded prior to the merger. What's $6.7 million when it comes to you golden boyz?

Here are the October schedule numbers (I may be off one or two because I am mathematically challenged):

GV PIC: 92 GV SIC: 36

In transition from GIV to GV in October:

GV PIC: 5 GV SIC: 12


GIV PIC: 116 GIV SIC: 65

Grand total: 326


I have no idea how many of the G-IV pilots are crossovers from NJA. Rough guess is 15 Captains and 7 or 8 F/O's.

Make of these numbers what you will.