Seniority by Date of Hire

[Bringupthebird]

Two airlines which are roughly the same demographic can be merged by date-of-hire which would approximate a relative seniority integration. When they are wildly disparate, DOH is a staple.

Nicolau gave the east their wide-bodies and weighed attrition against the very real prospect that US wouldn't be around and then slotted the active pilots fairly. The east's new-found devotion to furloughed pilots is disingenuous at best and the argument that MDA was mainline even though the pilots were restricted from ever bidding any other equipment, is laughable.

 

[PHXFLYR]

And you are on the "Lucky Side" of things!

No way in the world can any airline employee who has fallen into that aeronautical cesspool known as USAir ever be considered lucky. No way.


PHXFLYR

 

[Bringupthebird]

[/i][/b]


No way in the world can any airline employee who has fallen into that aeronautical cesspool known as USAir ever be considered lucky. No way.


PHXFLYR

Hey have some respect for cesspools, will 'ya?

 

[Poahi]

Mandatory, binding and immediate arbitration. No matter what the policy is, you are never going to be free from years of fighting unless there is one final authority that everyone else can complain about later.

This debate implies there is a choice which is fundamentally silly and irrational.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Relative seniority. FWIW

 

[rajflyboy]

[/i][/b]


No way in the world can any airline employee who has fallen into that aeronautical cesspool known as USAir ever be considered lucky. No way.


PHXFLYR

True at this point

Good Old Days at USAIR aren't there anymore.

 

[waveflyer]

Nic was as right as he could be considering the flawed seniority system that we have.

If you're on the bottom of the list--- then you have to realize that you ARE in fact- on the bottom of the pecking order in the entire industry

 

[PHXFLYR]

True at this point

Good Old Days at USAIR aren't there anymore.

There never were any "good old days at USAIR." Hell, even when they had the A-scale money,schedules to die for and the pensions they were still whining about something. They are just one miserable group of people. Always have been and always will be. Unfortunatly they're going to drag us down with them. Nice .


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Hey have some respect for cesspools, will 'ya?

Woops ! sorry......:0



PHXFLYR

 

[PuffDriver]

There never were any "good old days at USAIR.

Not true.

Hell, even when they had the A-scale money,schedules to die for and the pensions they were still whining about something.

Not true.

Unfortunatly they're going to drag us down with them.

Frankly, AWA was as bad as USAir, probably worse, as AWA NEVER had A scale wages, retirement, etc. DIP financing was growing on trees at the time. USAir was going nowhere. Although you dream that you were the savior, in truth you were merely an opportunist.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Not true.





Not true.





Frankly, AWA was as bad as USAir, probably worse, as AWA NEVER had A scale wages, retirement, etc. DIP financing was growing on trees at the time. USAir was going nowhere. Although you dream that you were the savior, in truth you were merely an opportunist.

The only"opportunists" here are you and your goon buddies who are trying to implement a DOH seniority list and will use any means available at your disposal to do so And while it's true we never had the wages and retirement you allude to, at least we appreciated
the little we did have, (which is more than you have right now, I might add) ;enjoyed the job for what it was, and unlike you guys, didn't think the world owed us a living just because we flew for an airline . Let's face it. You guys have elevated pissing and moaning to an art form.And this was way before you lost all that you had.


PHXFLYR l

 

[PuffDriver]

The only"opportunists" here are you and your goon buddies who are trying to implement a DOH seniority list and will use any means available at your disposal to do so And while it's true we never had the wages and retirement you allude to, at least we appreciated
the little we did have, (which is more than you have right now, I might add) ;enjoyed the job for what it was, and unlike you guys, didn't think the world owed us a living just because we flew for an airline . Let's face it. You guys have elevated pissing and moaning to an art form.And this was way before you lost all that you had.


PHXFLYR l

There is no "we". I am merey an outside observer. I've read everything, and there is no doubt in my mind that the old man blew it. He screwed up the seniority list royaly. You disagree, I get that.

ALPA merger policy is the problem here, not the USAir guys, not you guys. Fact is that USAir was NOT dead in the water. DIP financing grew on trees back then. Using the death knoll as an excuse for determining that one airline career is more or less valuable than another is just insane. The proof is that by the rime the award actually came out, all pilots who wanted to be back, were back. Some, in fact, never left the property. Perhaps DOH was extreme, fine. That does not justify the punishment handed down, IMO. This was NOT baseball arbitration.

I've said my peace, throw venom all you want. USAir pilots used/are using every tool at their disposal via legal means. Should you expect them to do anything less regarding their career? Would you guys? I think not, as you have already taken it to questionable extremes.

So be it, round and round you go.

 

[Hamburger]

You agree to BINDING ARBITRATION and you should be expected to keep your word.

Thats how it should always be when two union pilot groups merge! Period !

Anything less and you cannot call yourself a man. Integrity is not something to be taken lightly.

 

[PuffDriver]

You agree to BINDING ARBITRATION and you should be expected to keep your word.



Anything less and you cannot call yourself a man. Integrity is not something to be taken lightly.

The USAirways pilots have been the industry whipping boys for awhile now. They were the first to enter BK, no help from ALPA. They were the first to lose their pension WITHOUT a membership ratifiaction vote, no help from ALPA. Then they got an unfair award which did not follow ALPA merger policy from an arbitrator, no help from ALPA.

Do you think that the AWA and USAir pilots would be in this position today if ALPA, or even fellow ALPA pilots, had stepped in the day they lost their pension and said, NO?

We'll never know, because it didn't happen. What DID the AWA guys do to help their fellow ALPA pilots? The answer: lobby actively to overturn the age 60 rule. They simply didn't care that the USAir guys were losing their pension, and their work rules, and their pay, and their medical. AWA pilots didn't have these benefits, so why should they care?

Of course, it wasn't just limited to AWA pilots, but Comair pilots, Delta pilots, Fed Ex pilots, AA pilots, Mesa pilots, all of us.

WE backed the USAir pilots into a corner, and then they turned on us. THEY are a product of US.

Deal with it. It is your fault, not theirs. "Your" collectively that it.

This is what is going so right with the DAL/NWA merger. The Delta pilots have effectively taken one for the team. The majority of the negotiating capital pie is being fed to the skinny NWA pilots to fatten them up. Many Delta pilots are pi$$ed about this. So why did the Delta MEC do it? Because it is the right thing to do. Because anything less than parity would create disparity. The list will happen the same way. The NWA guys WILL get hit. Why? Because ALPA merger policy makes no mention of DOH, and the right thing to do is keep 97-00 Delta guys and above in the captain positions they are currently in, and the NWA pilots are NOT in. A 767 IS a widebody and WILL be considered as such in a merger. Anything less than "seniority parity" will create the AWA/USAirways fiasco.

AWA guys, its YOUR fault.

 

[NuGuy]

This is what is going so right with the DAL/NWA merger. The Delta pilots have effectively taken one for the team. The majority of the negotiating capital pie is being fed to the skinny NWA pilots to fatten them up. Many Delta pilots are pi$$ed about this. So why did the Delta MEC do it? Because it is the right thing to do. Because anything less than parity would create disparity. The list will happen the same way. The NWA guys WILL get hit. Why? Because ALPA merger policy makes no mention of DOH, and the right thing to do is keep 97-00 Delta guys and above in the captain positions they are currently in, and the NWA pilots are NOT in. A 767 IS a widebody and WILL be considered as such in a merger. Anything less than "seniority parity" will create the AWA/USAirways fiasco.

Heyas Puffy,

Get over yourself. After you subtract out all the QoL items that were lost when the NWA PWA was jettisoned, the NWA guys were left with what amounts to a COLA raise.

The post BQ DAL contract wasn't that great, and that's what we got left with. Some things are more important than W2.

Nu