Seniority by Date of Hire

[cactusboy53]

Oh...oh...where am I?? I thought I was at flightinfo.com but it feels like US Aviation......oh...oh...the room is spinning out of control (and me w/o my first beer??!!)!!!!:beer:

So, Marty.
We AWA folks have many Mesa pilot's in our ranks. Could we have counted on your support if you had been even one number senior to Dave Odell??

That would have been funny. MCDU...."Those rat B#######'s Eastie's are ruining everything!!"

 

[Bringupthebird]

Actually USAPA can thank ALPA policy requiring a joint contract prior to SLI for their existance. Had the horse been put ahead of the cart and the SLI been determined and implemented first, the joint contract could have been judged truly on it's merits alone, not on how it could be used to circumvent the arbitrated award.

The AWA pilots need to take some of the responsibility for being in the position they are by choosing to be wimps on the high road than fighting the guerilla war which was necessary.

As they always say, "We'll get 'em next time" (but we'll use exactly the same failed strategy).

 

[MCDU]

Oh...oh...where am I?? I thought I was at flightinfo.com but it feels like US Aviation......oh...oh...the room is spinning out of control (and me w/o my first beer??!!)!!!!:beer:

So, Marty.
We AWA folks have many Mesa pilot's in our ranks. Could we have counted on your support if you had been even one number senior to Dave Odell??

That would have been funny. MCDU...."Those rat B#######'s Eastie's are ruining everything!!"

Thats why we call AWA=Mesa Grande. Same mentality. The apple does not fall far from the tree.


M

 

[Fubijaakr]

Troll alert!

 

[Soulfly]

Nevermind.....

 

[MCDU]

Come on Soulfly. Give it a shot. You need to vent. I know debating this does not get us anywhere. But it is good to lay it all out. This Topic is like debating pro-life or pro-choice. One side thinks DOH and the other relative seniority. But its all good. In 10 years most of us Easties will be gone and you will have your airline.

M

 

[ASADFW7]

Air Canada use be a part of ALPA then know as CALPA. Their parent company bought all the Regionals flying for them. When they were furloughing they want common employer to go backwards into the regionals. The problem was on the other direction with a common carrier petition. It was so bad they broke out of CALPA. The problem is that when CALPA merged with ALPA, all the legal expenses are still paid by ALPA in reference to the common carrier petition. It doesn't matter apples to grapes. Common carrier is common carrier! Be careful what you wish for and file lawsuits for.

 

[aa73]

Thats how it should always be when two union pilot groups merge! Period !

You obviously don't work for SWA.

 

[UALjan15]

Yeah, we needed this thread like a bad case of crabs. What an utter waste of time...

 

[Flybet3]

Thats how it should always be when two union pilot groups merge! Period !

That's what I've always said. Merge them and give them a number based on date of hire and DON'T MOVE ANYONE!! Everyone stays in their current seat. And then when vacancies come out things are awarded by seniority. That's fair.

 

[Deadalus]

You are not comparing apples to apples. You are comparing Apples to grapes!

With an Apple to Apple Merge >> Seniorty should be "Date of hire"

What if one apple is profitable with good credit and the other one is rotten with worms crawling around in it? In other words, get a clue dufus.

 

[scoreboardII]

Thats how it should always be when two union pilot groups merge! Period !

You really don't think before you post do you?

 

[waka]

Thats how it should always be when two union pilot groups merge! Period !

Screw that! Relative seniority....no if's and's or but's/

 

[waveflyer]

horrible you found yourself at the bottom of the list after 15 years- but you did. you refused to move- sorry- you can't leapfrog from bottom to 50% overnight and make the purchasing carrier your furlough fodder.

NIC was right and addressed every issue you all have brought up. You just disagree w/ his decision. Can't wait for the process to be done and you all end up in your proper positions.

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

raj,

I know exactly how that feels... I was in that pilot group that got kicked to the street...

I guess you didn't get the sarcasm in my first post.

I'm just a "Kmart pilot". Always will be....

TV9Driver,

I have heard that quote kicked around quite often over the years. I believe it was attributable to APA’s negotiator Ed White. I don’t know if Capt White ever really said that or if it’s just urban legion. Anyways, and I do fly with former TWA Captains that are flying our most senior HNL trips in the left seat, and most native AAer’s do not believe that quote you are trying pin to the AA pilots. There are always a couple of bad apples, but by and large, it’s a pretty good professional relationship between the two groups.


Most here are smart enough to know, it only takes an economic hit or some bad management to end up on the pilot short end of the stick.


Bottom line, date of hire is way too simplistic an approach. The reality is that not all airlines are created equal. Next bring in the attorneys and negotiators and you’ve got a full blown battle. It is what it is.


Now, can we all put aside our petty differences to create a “national seniority list?” It’s the only long-term solution to protect our profession or else our managements will just continue to play us off against one another.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[charlie2]

I always had trouble with the "bringing a job to the merger" and the "career expectations" concepts because these change so quickly with managements' mismanagement. But we as pilots hold this mismanagement against the furloughed pilot for "not bringing a job to the merger.." or hold it against another pilot in a merger with "my management ordered a bzillion 777's so I have a career expectation to be a 777 capt next year and for the next 35 years of my career." Lets at least agree that it is not a pilots fault for being furloughed and that seniority number they have may be worth something in the future. My buddy at United had a career expectation to be a 737 capt at year 3 and a wide body capt at year 15. That was in 96 when he was hired but now here he is at year 11 looking at narrow body FO. So much for career expectations.

 

[JetMonkey]

It's career expectations at time of merger.

 

[imacdog]

Now, can we all put aside our petty differences to create a “national seniority list?” It’s the only long-term solution to protect our profession or else our managements will just continue to play us off against one another.

AA767AV8TOR

Yeah good luck on that one. As can be seen with USAPA, pilots will sink to new lows all the time in order to screw other pilots. There is no unity in this industry.

 

[vprMatrix]

Screw that! Relative seniority....no if's and's or but's/

:uzi:

Thanks but no thanks, how about Relative Position.

 

[charlie2]

It's career expectations at time of merger.

I know...a management created expectation that you will gladly use against another pilot at your first opportunity. Hope your management doesn't change your expectations at the wrong moment.