Jet Fuel Prices WILL Be Climbing A LOT, and Soon

[Two Feathers]

True. They don't really NEED to use much gas though... ...I'm not sure how else a nation built on cheap oil can endure.

I'm not sure how either. We are in a very vulnerable spot as a nation NEEDING the way we do. I've been following the Peak Oil info for a couple of years now and I've been concerned but still a bit detached. Now I'm starting to get nervous. I hope we have 4 to 5 years before things get really out of whack.

 

[Lear70]

What I don't understand, "big picture" excluded, is why the HELL Diesel costs have gone up so much faster than regular gas costs.

1st. There's not as large a demand for them so, as the demand curve increases for unleaded gasoline, thus prompting demand throughout the contry, diesel gas doesn't follow with.

2nd. Diesel performs better. It lasts longer, burns cleaner, is more stable in its native form in storage for periods of time. Why, then, the spike in price for something that isn't being used faster than anything else, isn't about to expire if not used, and works better?

3. It costs 30-40% less to manufacture Diesel fuel than regularl unleaded. Diesel is a normal BY-PRODUCT of unleaded fuel production, and there's nothing else to do with that fuel except refine it for motor use, military use, or aviation use. Period. So if it's going to get produced anyway, why wouldn't it cost only the portion of the refining it needs to meet its end production state?

Unless someone can explain this LOGICALLY and MATHEMATICALLY to me exactly WHY Diesel has been skyrocketing in price, even above unleaded gas, I can only assume that this is being controlled by the oil companies.

I mean, why not leave the price the same for fuel that costs very little, if anything, extra to make over unleaded and that was, for the most product, a WASTE PRODUCT to obtain clean unleaded gas?

Why cash in on a bunch of extra people who know it cleans better, lasts longer, goes more miles between fill-ups so they buy diesel? Because that's the only conclusion I can come to...

Anybody with some hard data on it?

 

[crxpilot]

Good post!

For me, I would be happy if there were a 4x4 crew cab truck that was a hybrid with better than 18 mpg fuel efficiency, able to use the gas engine for the torque when pulling a load, but when roaming around town daily, could benefit from the hybrid gas/electric savings.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be one with enough torque to pull my boat AND get 25-30+ mpg when not towing anything, which sucks, and even if there was, it would be so expensive so as to offset any fuel savings you'd get from having a hybrid.

The tax credit equal to the price inflation is a great idea; we should all write our Senators and Congressmen. Seriously.

Lear,
Have you looked on ebay recently? People are taking vehicles and converting them to all electric everyday. Not long ago I saw a guy advertising a crew cab truck that was all electric.
I bought an all electric car that does fine for me going back and forth to work and running errands. It costs me less than a dollar a day to use it.
No disrespect intended, but I see a lot of you guys moaning and groaning about oil and conservation, but no one is mentioning what they are willing to do about it. Affordable electric cars are here, you just have to do a little digging to find them. Good luck!

 

[Lear70]

Lear,
Have you looked on ebay recently? People are taking vehicles and converting them to all electric everyday. Not long ago I saw a guy advertising a crew cab truck that was all electric.
I bought an all electric car that does fine for me going back and forth to work and running errands. It costs me less than a dollar a day to use it.
No disrespect intended, but I see a lot of you guys moaning and groaning about oil and conservation, but no one is mentioning what they are willing to do about it. Affordable electric cars are here, you just have to do a little digging to find them. Good luck!

OK. Cool. Here's what we'll do.

I'm looking for a mid-late 90's Dodge or Ford Crew Cab (the ones with a back seat and suicide doors that open - have to have it for the kids) in 4x4, preferrably 5-spd manual shift, in a hybrid.

This truck must STILL be able to carry it's STATED PAYLOAD from the manufacturer, specifically, my jetskis and my 26' 2,300 pound ski boat trailer. Also, the torque range has to still be there to get it out of the lake on a steep boat ramp.

It has to do all that with an average gas mileage in the 30's city driving, 35 or so highway driving, go up to 400 miles without stopping for gas and be able to take regular gas as a mix if you're not near a refilling station (I drive back and forth to my Mom's farm a lot in Kentucy). It also has to get about 20 mpg or so when hauling a load, not the anemic 8-10 the new hybrid "trucks" are getting right now.

Find me one of those hybrids for under $20k (have to get conventional financing) and I'll spot you a $500 finder's fee when the deal is closed.

Fair enough? Seriously...

 

[Mamma]

Ever wonder why the private sector is not embracing the synthetic fuel now being used by the Air Force? It costs $40-$75 a barrel. It is "greener" than what we use now. Why has Pratt and Whitney, GE and RR not certified this fuel for their engines? I'm not making any kind of statement, but if I were an airline CEO I would be all over this. The AF is trying to urge the private sector to get on board to bring the costs down even further. The B-52 is certified to run on this and the C-17 flew cross-country using this fuel. The C-17 has a variant of the 757 engine. I just wonder what the delay is.

 

[clippyrip]

OK. Cool. Here's what we'll do.

I'm looking for a mid-late 90's Dodge or Ford Crew Cab (the ones with a back seat and suicide doors that open - have to have it for the kids) in 4x4, preferrably 5-spd manual shift, in a hybrid.

This truck must STILL be able to carry it's STATED PAYLOAD from the manufacturer, specifically, my jetskis and my 26' 2,300 pound ski boat trailer. Also, the torque range has to still be there to get it out of the lake on a steep boat ramp.

It has to do all that with an average gas mileage in the 30's city driving, 35 or so highway driving, go up to 400 miles without stopping for gas and be able to take regular gas as a mix if you're not near a refilling station (I drive back and forth to my Mom's farm a lot in Kentucy). It also has to get about 20 mpg or so when hauling a load, not the anemic 8-10 the new hybrid "trucks" are getting right now.

So you are not going to compromise your lifestyle and you are going to continue to complain. Good combo, keep it up!

 

[Lear70]

So you are not going to compromise your lifestyle and you are going to continue to complain. Good combo, keep it up!

A truck exists for a purpose. By your reasoning above, I should expect to stop using a truck completely, then?

Should we just stop living our lives, too?

I don't think so. Am I going to continue to jetski once or twice a month? You bet. Will we pare it back and spend more of the lake time camping out and swimming rather that skiing or jetskiing for fuel conservation? Yup.

It's not your place to presume to tell me what I should or shouldn't do with my life. I sold my 4x4 truck because it was guzzling too much fuel and was borrowing my friend's truck when we want to do those lake days. Now I'm going to have to spend more time up on the family farm than I used to - Mother is getting sick and things need tending to. So I need another truck but want a hybrid that will actually be GOOD for emissions and mileage instead of just a 10-15% increase.

But thanks for your compassion and understanding, rather than just telling someone off for YOUR perceived errors in other's ways.

I'd nominate your for FI Tool of the Week, but PBR has it locked up with some other self-righteous thread dribble. Maybe the two of you should hook up.

 

[wheelsup]

What I don't understand, big picture excluded, is why the HELL Diesel costs have gone up so much faster than regular gas costs.

I think the new low sulfur diesel requires more oil to manufacture. Thus, higher costs.

You mention it being a waste product of unleaded gas. Chew on this.

1 Barrel of Oil: $130

Gallons of auto gas per barrel of oil: 20

Cost of gasoline per gallon in oil alone...$6.50. And we pay what? $4 retail?

 

[crxpilot]

OK. Cool. Here's what we'll do.

I'm looking for a mid-late 90's Dodge or Ford Crew Cab (the ones with a back seat and suicide doors that open - have to have it for the kids) in 4x4, preferrably 5-spd manual shift, in a hybrid.

This truck must STILL be able to carry it's STATED PAYLOAD from the manufacturer, specifically, my jetskis and my 26' 2,300 pound ski boat trailer. Also, the torque range has to still be there to get it out of the lake on a steep boat ramp.

It has to do all that with an average gas mileage in the 30's city driving, 35 or so highway driving, go up to 400 miles without stopping for gas and be able to take regular gas as a mix if you're not near a refilling station (I drive back and forth to my Mom's farm a lot in Kentucy). It also has to get about 20 mpg or so when hauling a load, not the anemic 8-10 the new hybrid "trucks" are getting right now.

Find me one of those hybrids for under $20k (have to get conventional financing) and I'll spot you a $500 finder's fee when the deal is closed.

Fair enough? Seriously...

Well I am not a car broker. You will have to pursue your own quest for the dream machine.
What I am offering is the majority of your driving can be done with an all electric car/truck that are readily available today. So my question to you and for those that think there should be change is, what are you gonna do about it? Will you put your money where your mouth is?

BTW, here is one truck that is supposed to be going up to 250 miles on a charge soon.
http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/pdf/SUT-Specifications.pdf

 

[blzr]

Well I am not a car broker. You will have to pursue your own quest for the dream machine.
What I am offering is the majority of your driving can be done with an all electric car/truck that are readily available today. So my question to you and for those that think there should be change is, what are you gonna do about it? Will you put your money where your mouth is?

BTW, here is one truck that is supposed to be going up to 250 miles on a charge soon.
http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/pdf/SUT-Specifications.pdf

That looks really cool. But if it is like the Tesla Motors vehicle, it will be way out of the pricerange of average people. The Tesla car is $109k with a $60k up-front fee. Until the prices come WAY down, it will be just a novelty even with $10/gal gas it will be cheaper to own a conventional fuel car.

 

[blzr]

Anyone on here heard about this? sounds interesting and promising though.

http://www.lanl.gov/news/index.php/fuseaction/home.story/story_id/12554

 

[crxpilot]

That looks really cool. But if it is like the Tesla Motors vehicle, it will be way out of the pricerange of average people. The Tesla car is $109k with a $60k up-front fee. Until the prices come WAY down, it will be just a novelty even with $10/gal gas it will be cheaper to own a conventional fuel car.

blzr,
my all electric car goes up to 70 mph, has a range of between 50-60 miles and cost me less than 15K. Like I said before, I see a lot of "talking" on here, but when push comes to shove, people are just blowing a lot of smoke about how they want to make a difference with the environment or use alternative ways to fossil fuels!

Curious, is there ANYONE else on these boards driving an alternate energy vehicle/motorcycle? :erm:

 

[PCL_128]

blzr,
my all electric car goes up to 70 mph, has a range of between 50-60 miles and cost me less than 15K.

Just 50-60 miles? I couldn't even drive to the employee lot and back on that.

 

[crxpilot]

Just 50-60 miles? I couldn't even drive to the employee lot and back on that.

how far do you live from the airport? you plug in at the airport and now you have 50 miles each way to use.

Also, what about all the driving you do around you area when you go to the stores, movies etc. Most of your driving can be done with an electric vehicle. Once again, I hear excuses, not solutions. When push comes to shove, nobody wants to do their part.

 

[Saabslime]

blzr,
my all electric car goes up to 70 mph, has a range of between 50-60 miles and cost me less than 15K.

That's all good but have you done any research into what that all electric is going to cost you in repair bills once it needs fixing or new batts? All your initial cost savings just went out the door.

 

[crxpilot]

That's all good but have you done any research into what that all electric is going to cost you in repair bills once it needs fixing or new batts? All your initial cost savings just went out the door.

More excuses.......:

What is there to fix? There is NO fuel system, oil system, cooling system, and exhast system. That leaves us with wheels, brakes, an electric motor with a battery charger and converter. Batteries typically last approximately 5 years. Mine has 13 12V batteries which equates to approximately 20/month in additional expenses. The electric "magic" boxes has no moving parts so they rarely need fixing.
charging costs 50-60 cents for most utility companies to fully charge the batteries.

I am a realist and do have a regular car for long distances.

No offense Saab, but once again, it just goes to show that when push comes to shove, people really dont want to make a difference, they are just looking for excuses.

 

[clippyrip]

Once again, I hear excuses, not solutions. When push comes to shove, nobody wants to do their part.

Exactly!

 

[clippyrip]

OK Lear, I will re quote you. Here was your 1st response about hybrids....

This truck must STILL be able to carry it's STATED PAYLOAD from the manufacturer, specifically, my jetskis and my 26' 2,300 pound ski boat trailer. Also, the torque range has to still be there to get it out of the lake on a steep boat ramp.

I didn't grow up on a farm but I don't think skiing behind a boat and blazing around on jet skis would qualify as "tending to the farm".

 

[PCL_128]

how far do you live from the airport? you plug in at the airport and now you have 50 miles each way to use.

I live exactly 26 miles from the employee lot according to my car's GPS. So no, a 50 mile range won't do it since there aren't any power plugs for me to charge up on in the employee lot. Not to mention that a 50 mile range is just absurd anyway. But you're talking to the wrong guy, anyway. My car has an 8 cylinder HEMI. I'm not exactly going to switch to a little toy electric car that does 0-60 in 25 seconds.

 

[crxpilot]

I live exactly 26 miles from the employee lot according to my car's GPS. So no, a 50 mile range won't do it since there aren't any power plugs for me to charge up on in the employee lot. Not to mention that a 50 mile range is just absurd anyway. But you're talking to the wrong guy, anyway. My car has an 8 cylinder HEMI. I'm not exactly going to switch to a little toy electric car that does 0-60 in 25 seconds.

Well cant argue with your "hemi" gas guzzler, but the car is far from a toy and 0-60 is just as fast as any other standard car.
You have plug ins at your airport or the ability to get one available to you, you just want an excuse to not make a difference........