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Jet Fuel Prices WILL Be Climbing A LOT, and Soon

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True. They don't really NEED to use much gas though... ...I'm not sure how else a nation built on cheap oil can endure.

I'm not sure how either. We are in a very vulnerable spot as a nation NEEDING the way we do. I've been following the Peak Oil info for a couple of years now and I've been concerned but still a bit detached. Now I'm starting to get nervous. I hope we have 4 to 5 years before things get really out of whack.
 
What I don't understand, "big picture" excluded, is why the HELL Diesel costs have gone up so much faster than regular gas costs.

1st. There's not as large a demand for them so, as the demand curve increases for unleaded gasoline, thus prompting demand throughout the contry, diesel gas doesn't follow with.

2nd. Diesel performs better. It lasts longer, burns cleaner, is more stable in its native form in storage for periods of time. Why, then, the spike in price for something that isn't being used faster than anything else, isn't about to expire if not used, and works better?

3. It costs 30-40% less to manufacture Diesel fuel than regularl unleaded. Diesel is a normal BY-PRODUCT of unleaded fuel production, and there's nothing else to do with that fuel except refine it for motor use, military use, or aviation use. Period. So if it's going to get produced anyway, why wouldn't it cost only the portion of the refining it needs to meet its end production state?

Unless someone can explain this LOGICALLY and MATHEMATICALLY to me exactly WHY Diesel has been skyrocketing in price, even above unleaded gas, I can only assume that this is being controlled by the oil companies.

I mean, why not leave the price the same for fuel that costs very little, if anything, extra to make over unleaded and that was, for the most product, a WASTE PRODUCT to obtain clean unleaded gas?

Why cash in on a bunch of extra people who know it cleans better, lasts longer, goes more miles between fill-ups so they buy diesel? Because that's the only conclusion I can come to...

Anybody with some hard data on it?
 
Good post!

For me, I would be happy if there were a 4x4 crew cab truck that was a hybrid with better than 18 mpg fuel efficiency, able to use the gas engine for the torque when pulling a load, but when roaming around town daily, could benefit from the hybrid gas/electric savings.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be one with enough torque to pull my boat AND get 25-30+ mpg when not towing anything, which sucks, and even if there was, it would be so expensive so as to offset any fuel savings you'd get from having a hybrid.

The tax credit equal to the price inflation is a great idea; we should all write our Senators and Congressmen. Seriously.

Lear,
Have you looked on ebay recently? People are taking vehicles and converting them to all electric everyday. Not long ago I saw a guy advertising a crew cab truck that was all electric.
I bought an all electric car that does fine for me going back and forth to work and running errands. It costs me less than a dollar a day to use it.
No disrespect intended, but I see a lot of you guys moaning and groaning about oil and conservation, but no one is mentioning what they are willing to do about it. Affordable electric cars are here, you just have to do a little digging to find them. Good luck!
 
Lear,
Have you looked on ebay recently? People are taking vehicles and converting them to all electric everyday. Not long ago I saw a guy advertising a crew cab truck that was all electric.
I bought an all electric car that does fine for me going back and forth to work and running errands. It costs me less than a dollar a day to use it.
No disrespect intended, but I see a lot of you guys moaning and groaning about oil and conservation, but no one is mentioning what they are willing to do about it. Affordable electric cars are here, you just have to do a little digging to find them. Good luck!
OK. Cool. Here's what we'll do.

I'm looking for a mid-late 90's Dodge or Ford Crew Cab (the ones with a back seat and suicide doors that open - have to have it for the kids) in 4x4, preferrably 5-spd manual shift, in a hybrid.

This truck must STILL be able to carry it's STATED PAYLOAD from the manufacturer, specifically, my jetskis and my 26' 2,300 pound ski boat trailer. Also, the torque range has to still be there to get it out of the lake on a steep boat ramp.

It has to do all that with an average gas mileage in the 30's city driving, 35 or so highway driving, go up to 400 miles without stopping for gas and be able to take regular gas as a mix if you're not near a refilling station (I drive back and forth to my Mom's farm a lot in Kentucy). It also has to get about 20 mpg or so when hauling a load, not the anemic 8-10 the new hybrid "trucks" are getting right now.

Find me one of those hybrids for under $20k (have to get conventional financing) and I'll spot you a $500 finder's fee when the deal is closed.

Fair enough? Seriously...
 
Ever wonder why the private sector is not embracing the synthetic fuel now being used by the Air Force? It costs $40-$75 a barrel. It is "greener" than what we use now. Why has Pratt and Whitney, GE and RR not certified this fuel for their engines? I'm not making any kind of statement, but if I were an airline CEO I would be all over this. The AF is trying to urge the private sector to get on board to bring the costs down even further. The B-52 is certified to run on this and the C-17 flew cross-country using this fuel. The C-17 has a variant of the 757 engine. I just wonder what the delay is.
 
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OK. Cool. Here's what we'll do.

I'm looking for a mid-late 90's Dodge or Ford Crew Cab (the ones with a back seat and suicide doors that open - have to have it for the kids) in 4x4, preferrably 5-spd manual shift, in a hybrid.

This truck must STILL be able to carry it's STATED PAYLOAD from the manufacturer, specifically, my jetskis and my 26' 2,300 pound ski boat trailer. Also, the torque range has to still be there to get it out of the lake on a steep boat ramp.

It has to do all that with an average gas mileage in the 30's city driving, 35 or so highway driving, go up to 400 miles without stopping for gas and be able to take regular gas as a mix if you're not near a refilling station (I drive back and forth to my Mom's farm a lot in Kentucy). It also has to get about 20 mpg or so when hauling a load, not the anemic 8-10 the new hybrid "trucks" are getting right now.



So you are not going to compromise your lifestyle and you are going to continue to complain. Good combo, keep it up!
 
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So you are not going to compromise your lifestyle and you are going to continue to complain. Good combo, keep it up!
A truck exists for a purpose. By your reasoning above, I should expect to stop using a truck completely, then?

Should we just stop living our lives, too?

I don't think so. Am I going to continue to jetski once or twice a month? You bet. Will we pare it back and spend more of the lake time camping out and swimming rather that skiing or jetskiing for fuel conservation? Yup.

It's not your place to presume to tell me what I should or shouldn't do with my life. I sold my 4x4 truck because it was guzzling too much fuel and was borrowing my friend's truck when we want to do those lake days. Now I'm going to have to spend more time up on the family farm than I used to - Mother is getting sick and things need tending to. So I need another truck but want a hybrid that will actually be GOOD for emissions and mileage instead of just a 10-15% increase.

But thanks for your compassion and understanding, rather than just telling someone off for YOUR perceived errors in other's ways.

I'd nominate your for FI Tool of the Week, but PBR has it locked up with some other self-righteous thread dribble. Maybe the two of you should hook up.
 
What I don't understand, big picture excluded, is why the HELL Diesel costs have gone up so much faster than regular gas costs.
I think the new low sulfur diesel requires more oil to manufacture. Thus, higher costs.

You mention it being a waste product of unleaded gas. Chew on this.

1 Barrel of Oil: $130

Gallons of auto gas per barrel of oil: 20

Cost of gasoline per gallon in oil alone...$6.50. And we pay what? $4 retail?
 
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OK. Cool. Here's what we'll do.

I'm looking for a mid-late 90's Dodge or Ford Crew Cab (the ones with a back seat and suicide doors that open - have to have it for the kids) in 4x4, preferrably 5-spd manual shift, in a hybrid.

This truck must STILL be able to carry it's STATED PAYLOAD from the manufacturer, specifically, my jetskis and my 26' 2,300 pound ski boat trailer. Also, the torque range has to still be there to get it out of the lake on a steep boat ramp.

It has to do all that with an average gas mileage in the 30's city driving, 35 or so highway driving, go up to 400 miles without stopping for gas and be able to take regular gas as a mix if you're not near a refilling station (I drive back and forth to my Mom's farm a lot in Kentucy). It also has to get about 20 mpg or so when hauling a load, not the anemic 8-10 the new hybrid "trucks" are getting right now.

Find me one of those hybrids for under $20k (have to get conventional financing) and I'll spot you a $500 finder's fee when the deal is closed.

Fair enough? Seriously...

Well I am not a car broker. You will have to pursue your own quest for the dream machine.
What I am offering is the majority of your driving can be done with an all electric car/truck that are readily available today. So my question to you and for those that think there should be change is, what are you gonna do about it? Will you put your money where your mouth is? :cool:

BTW, here is one truck that is supposed to be going up to 250 miles on a charge soon.
http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/pdf/SUT-Specifications.pdf
 
Well I am not a car broker. You will have to pursue your own quest for the dream machine.
What I am offering is the majority of your driving can be done with an all electric car/truck that are readily available today. So my question to you and for those that think there should be change is, what are you gonna do about it? Will you put your money where your mouth is? :cool:

BTW, here is one truck that is supposed to be going up to 250 miles on a charge soon.
http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/pdf/SUT-Specifications.pdf


That looks really cool. But if it is like the Tesla Motors vehicle, it will be way out of the pricerange of average people. The Tesla car is $109k with a $60k up-front fee. Until the prices come WAY down, it will be just a novelty even with $10/gal gas it will be cheaper to own a conventional fuel car.
 
That looks really cool. But if it is like the Tesla Motors vehicle, it will be way out of the pricerange of average people. The Tesla car is $109k with a $60k up-front fee. Until the prices come WAY down, it will be just a novelty even with $10/gal gas it will be cheaper to own a conventional fuel car.

blzr,
my all electric car goes up to 70 mph, has a range of between 50-60 miles and cost me less than 15K. Like I said before, I see a lot of "talking" on here, but when push comes to shove, people are just blowing a lot of smoke about how they want to make a difference with the environment or use alternative ways to fossil fuels!

Curious, is there ANYONE else on these boards driving an alternate energy vehicle/motorcycle? :erm:
 
blzr,
my all electric car goes up to 70 mph, has a range of between 50-60 miles and cost me less than 15K.

Just 50-60 miles? I couldn't even drive to the employee lot and back on that.
 
Just 50-60 miles? I couldn't even drive to the employee lot and back on that.
how far do you live from the airport? you plug in at the airport and now you have 50 miles each way to use.

Also, what about all the driving you do around you area when you go to the stores, movies etc. Most of your driving can be done with an electric vehicle. Once again, I hear excuses, not solutions. When push comes to shove, nobody wants to do their part.
 
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blzr,
my all electric car goes up to 70 mph, has a range of between 50-60 miles and cost me less than 15K.

That's all good but have you done any research into what that all electric is going to cost you in repair bills once it needs fixing or new batts? All your initial cost savings just went out the door.
 
That's all good but have you done any research into what that all electric is going to cost you in repair bills once it needs fixing or new batts? All your initial cost savings just went out the door.

More excuses.......:

What is there to fix? There is NO fuel system, oil system, cooling system, and exhast system. That leaves us with wheels, brakes, an electric motor with a battery charger and converter. Batteries typically last approximately 5 years. Mine has 13 12V batteries which equates to approximately 20/month in additional expenses. The electric "magic" boxes has no moving parts so they rarely need fixing.
charging costs 50-60 cents for most utility companies to fully charge the batteries.

I am a realist and do have a regular car for long distances.

No offense Saab, but once again, it just goes to show that when push comes to shove, people really dont want to make a difference, they are just looking for excuses.
 
OK Lear, I will re quote you. Here was your 1st response about hybrids....

This truck must STILL be able to carry it's STATED PAYLOAD from the manufacturer, specifically, my jetskis and my 26' 2,300 pound ski boat trailer. Also, the torque range has to still be there to get it out of the lake on a steep boat ramp.

I didn't grow up on a farm but I don't think skiing behind a boat and blazing around on jet skis would qualify as "tending to the farm".
 
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how far do you live from the airport? you plug in at the airport and now you have 50 miles each way to use.

I live exactly 26 miles from the employee lot according to my car's GPS. So no, a 50 mile range won't do it since there aren't any power plugs for me to charge up on in the employee lot. Not to mention that a 50 mile range is just absurd anyway. But you're talking to the wrong guy, anyway. My car has an 8 cylinder HEMI. I'm not exactly going to switch to a little toy electric car that does 0-60 in 25 seconds.
 
I live exactly 26 miles from the employee lot according to my car's GPS. So no, a 50 mile range won't do it since there aren't any power plugs for me to charge up on in the employee lot. Not to mention that a 50 mile range is just absurd anyway. But you're talking to the wrong guy, anyway. My car has an 8 cylinder HEMI. I'm not exactly going to switch to a little toy electric car that does 0-60 in 25 seconds.

Well cant argue with your "hemi" gas guzzler, but the car is far from a toy and 0-60 is just as fast as any other standard car.
You have plug ins at your airport or the ability to get one available to you, you just want an excuse to not make a difference........:rolleyes:
 
Well cant argue with your "hemi" gas guzzler

I wouldn't call it a "gas guzzler." It has multi-displacement technology that shuts off half the cylinders in cruise. I average about 24 mpg, but it'll do about 29 mpg highway at 60 mph. That's pretty good, in my book. And the best part? It has 350 hp available whenever I want it.

but the car is far from a toy and 0-60 is just as fast as any other standard car.

I doubt that. What's the time? Besides, I'm not interested in a "standard car." I like a little extra pickup.

You have plug ins at your airport or the ability to get one available to you, you just want an excuse to not make a difference........:rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure that AirTran or the airport authority isn't going to spring for electrical outlets in the parking lot just so I can plug in a crappy electric car with a horrible range.
 
Just read it in a couple of articles within the last week or so. I'm sure you could find a reference with a thorough google search. I'm about to go fly, so I don't have the time to dig it up.

You find the source yet?

Don’t Blame Speculation—Commodity Prices Are Driven by Fundamentals

John Derrick
Director of Research
U.S. Global Investors Inc.
[email protected]
May 28th, 2008
U.S. Global Investors (Nasdaq: GROW) recently hosted a webcast titled “Energy and Commodities Trends: Speculative or Sustainable?” to provide a closer look at the current strength in natural resources prices. Our timing for this topic was good: oil prices hit a record $135 a barrel last week and drivers get more and more depressed every time they pull up to the gas pump.
Americans want to know how long we are going to have to put up with this. The answer to that question depends on whether one places most of the blame for today’s prices on market speculators or on a fundamental shift in global supply and demand trends.
When we answer that question, we think it’s important to offer both short-term and long-term viewpoints.
The flood of new money into energy and commodities from pension funds, hedge funds and other large investors has created some frothiness in those markets. We said recently that a short-term correction in the price of oil was likely, based on our statistical models.
But we think the long-term price trend will continue upward due to global growth.
The world is growing more populous and more prosperous. Rising living standards in the developing world are increasing demand for resources, which is driving up commodity prices across the board because supply can’t keep pace.
People around the world are consuming more calories (greater demand for food), they are buying more cars (greater demand for steel and oil), they are building bigger homes (greater demand for cement and copper), and so on.
And there are also interrelationships between these trends—for example, vast amounts of farmland in the developing world are being transformed into housing tracts, which reduces the acreage for food production. This pinches supply at the same time that demand is soaring.

derrick052808_clip_image001_0000.gif

The chart above clearly illustrates this prosperity trend. In China, per-capita GDP has risen from $339 in 1990 to $2,574 this year—that’s nearly an eightfold increase in less than two decades. In India and the Middle East, the numbers have more than doubled, and Brazil is close to doubling. Rising incomes lead to greater consumption of energy and commodities, which exerts pressure on prices.
Along with growing populations and growing prosperity, there is also growing urbanization. In China we're expecting roughly 500 million people to move to cities or towns over the next three decades. India’s urban population is expected to reach 540 million by 2025, roughly double today’s level.
This trend has been at work for years. About three billion people—nearly half of the world—live in urban areas right now. To give you an idea of the scale, that’s more people than the total global population in the mid-1960s. To keep up with the increase, cities are expanding their water systems, electricity grids, roadways and other infrastructure. Estimates are that $40 trillion will be needed over roughly the next 20 to 25 years to build out this infrastructure, which will exert price pressure on commodities.
Another way of weighing speculation against fundamentals is to look at metals prices.
Many metals are hard to speculate on because they are not listed on commodities exchanges—these include iron ore, steel, magnesium and cobalt. Research from Lehman Brothers found that a group of key non-exchange-traded metals shot up 600 percent between early 2002 and early 2008. During the same time, prices of listed base metals—copper, aluminum, nickel, zinc and lead—rose only 250 percent. This tells us that fundamental demand is the dominant factor in driving metals prices higher.
People want to blame speculation because that would give them hope that today’s food and energy prices will return to “normal” after the bubble bursts.
This is the way it has worked in the past, but most people don’t understand or perhaps don’t want to accept the fact that we have reached a tipping point across the board in commodities that will support even higher prices in the future.
John Derrick
U.S. Global Investors Inc.
[email protected]
May 28th, 2008
For more insights and perspectives from U.S. Global Investors, visit CEO Frank Holmes’ investment blog “Frank Talk” at www.usfunds.com/franktalk.
All opinions expressed and data provided are subject to change without notice. Some of these opinions may not be appropriate to every investor.
 
Supply hasn't increased hardly at all in 3 1/2 years and supply is rising at a phenomenal rate.

PCL,
You've got your head too far up your Hemi's tailpipe to realize there really is a supply/demand problem brewing.

Like the IEA says supply is increasing at 1% and demand is increasing about 3?% This can't continue.

The price has to rise to make both numbers equal.
 
I didn't grow up on a farm but I don't think skiing behind a boat and blazing around on jet skis would qualify as "tending to the farm".
And I never said that farming was ALL I wanted it for; quite the opposite, I was very open that I wanted the vehicle for work and play.

YOU are the one who went off on a tangent, focused on the jet skis and boat part, then got all high-and-mighty.

Save your recrimination for someone who actually will change the way they live their life based on what YOU believe. Everyone is ENTITLED to a little R&R with their family, and I sleep just fine at night with my choice of lifestyle...
 
Unless someone can explain this LOGICALLY and MATHEMATICALLY to me exactly WHY Diesel has been skyrocketing in price, even above unleaded gas, I can only assume that this is being controlled by the oil companies.

Worldwide demand for diesel is way up, much more so then demand for gasoline, which is actually falling in the US. Outside of the US there has been a huge switch to diesel fuel, in the EU over half the new cars sold are diesels. Because of the lower demand for gasoline in the EU they have an excess some of which is shipped to the US, increasing supply and slowing the increase in price. The demand for diesel in also way up in Asia, not as much so for gasoline. If you look at the rise in oil compared to the rise in gasoline you see that gasoline has not increased as much as the price of oil, while diesel has.
 
I average about 24 mpg, but it'll do about 29 mpg highway at 60 mph.

Yeah sure you do, you average 1 mpg over the EPA (revised) highway rating?

It has 350 hp available whenever I want it.
If you do avg 24 mpg you are driving 55mph in the right lane and basically never using that 350hp.
 
Yeah sure you do, you average 1 mpg over the EPA (revised) highway rating?

It has an on-board computer that tracks the average fuel economy each tank of gas. It always ends up between 23 and 25 after using a full tank. Believe it or not, those are the facts.

If you do avg 24 mpg you are driving 55mph in the right lane and basically never using that 350hp.

I usually go somewhere between 55-65 to save gas on the highway, and yes, I very rarely use the hp. But it's nice having it there for rare occasions.
 
It has an on-board computer that tracks the average fuel economy each tank of gas. It always ends up between 23 and 25 after using a full tank. Believe it or not, those are the facts.

Too bad you can't buy the diesel version here, if you can get 24 out of the V8 then you'd be sure to get 40-45 from the diesel. Your car is still a gas guzzler, if you'd bought an Accord and drove it in the same manner you'd get 40mpg too. Sure it's not union built, but the Accord is just as American as the 300C, probably more so.
 
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A Must Read From:
The Oil Drum-Europe:
Why oil costs over $120 per barrel
LINK: http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/4007#more

This is a great explanation of why oil prices have REALLY RISEN.

These geologists/experts leave no stone unturned in their analysis.

They talk about Energy Returned on Energy Invested, decline in current fields, new capacity additions, spare capacity, peak exports and the export land model, the falling dollar, and how subsidies in some countries distort the market.

Become informed,
Jet
 

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