PSA: Tower closed courtesy

[centralpilot]

PSA needs to review the proper way to get a clearance when the control tower is closed. You should wait until you are NUMBER ONE for departure before giving center a call, not while you're sitting at the gate. When you get that clearance, you close the entire airport to other IFR arrivals/departures. I held short for 10 minutes in MGM this morning waiting for PSA to finally make its way out to the runway. This is not the first time this has happened this month and PSA has a reputation for doing this in AVL as well. I know most of you guys know better; Please spread the word to those who don't.

 

[goahead]

That's what 200 hrs get's you

 

[meyers9163]

PSA needs to review the proper way to get a clearance when the control tower is closed. You should wait until you are NUMBER ONE for departure before giving center a call, not while you're sitting at the gate. When you get that clearance, you close the entire airport to other IFR arrivals/departures. I held short for 10 minutes in MGM this morning waiting for PSA to finally make its way out to the runway. This is not the first time this has happened this month and PSA has a reputation for doing this in AVL as well. I know most of you guys know better; Please spread the word to those who don't.

Well I see you are at a regional who hires low timers as well. Perhaps you yourself should review your way of getting a release and inform the center there as well. You can get a clearance at a closed tower via center whenever! However center should thus tell you to HOLD for release. Thus this is what happens at many MANY uncontrolled fields throughout the United States. I did all my IFR training at an uncontrolled field by Indianapolis and this is exactly what happen all the time. We fly pleanty into OAL (JAX NC) with you're CRJ200s and they do the same thing (while at the gate getting clearnace and told, "hold for relase")

Perhaps one needs to educate themselves first and also edcuate those down in MGM ATC about how to effectively use the "hold for relase." Anyways continue to rant if you wish.

 

[meyers9163]

That's what 200 hrs get's you

Ah so that's what Colgan, ASA, Comair, AE, PDT, Pinnacle, Mesa get as well? Oh yeah what about RAH at 500 and SKW at 800 (if you have 121 experience from the above list)? Oh yeah wait that's the entire regional industry! But very mature and educated post sir... greatly appreciated!

 

[buscap]

AWWWWW

DA POOH POOH BABEEEE HADDD TOOOO

hooolllld FOR TEN BEEEEG MEEENUTS

WAAAAAHHHHHHH

WAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

WAHHHHH

 

[Pilot124]

PSA needs to review the proper way to get a clearance when the control tower is closed. You should wait until you are NUMBER ONE for departure before giving center a call, not while you're sitting at the gate. When you get that clearance, you close the entire airport to other IFR arrivals/departures. I held short for 10 minutes in MGM this morning waiting for PSA to finally make its way out to the runway. This is not the first time this has happened this month and PSA has a reputation for doing this in AVL as well. I know most of you guys know better; Please spread the word to those who don't.

HOLD FOR RELEASE!! If you have never used it, you should. If I was #1 for departure and it's a full clearance you are still going to wait 10 mins while I plug it into the FMS and verify It's correct. :crying:

 

[Turtlesfly]

That's what 200 hrs get's you

That's what bad English education gets you.

 

[meyers9163]

HOLD FOR RELEASE!! If you have never used it, you should. If I was #1 for departure and it's a full clearance you are still going to wait 10 mins while I plug it into the FMS and verify It's correct. :crying:

EXACTLY..... plus then go back over all the delayed checklist from the beginning due to the FMS should at most companies be set up before you ever start the engines. Therefore if you go back by book you sould re do some list as well. Anyways they are simple words, "HOLD FOR RELEASE" especially since this poster was a CFII he should know better.

 

[skeezer]

Hold for release is fine. However if crews are receiving a void time and accepting it while still at the gate there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[meyers9163]

Hold for release is fine. However if crews are receiving a void time and accepting it while still at the gate there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

That would be different. There's no way a CA would accept a void time and not call back and cancel it. At least IMO. All the CA's I've been around and jumped on with various airlines are careful with that kind of stuff. Anyways you are correct a clearance void time is different. Buta again if you got a clerance void time I highly doubt it was a 10 minute window with other 121 carriers trying to get out.

However this guys post isnt totally in vain. Perhaps Center down there needs to be encouraged to give a hold for release. If they did not and could see other departures were going to occur from MGM that's on them.

Regardless someone who posted should check their own knowledge of instrument procedures. Getting a clearance as we've already discussed while at the gate happens by every airline and is a perfectly fine practice.

 

[mu2]

What Captain has 200 hours at PSA?

 

[deadstick]

My experience is that sometimes ATC will issue without a "Hold for release." Sometimes they will. If they don't give me one and I know it will be awhile, I ask for the hold. I get all the info, in this case it can be put in the little box-thingy, and all I have to do is give them a call when #1. No delay. No prob. It's not all on ATC. They are not the ones getting ready for the flight.

 

[Metro752]

That's what 200 hrs get's you

Captain has 200 hours?

What Captain has 200 hours at PSA?

Exactly.

PSA needs to review the proper way to get a clearance when the control tower is closed. You should wait until you are NUMBER ONE for departure before giving center a call, not while you're sitting at the gate. When you get that clearance, you close the entire airport to other IFR arrivals/departures. I held short for 10 minutes in MGM this morning waiting for PSA to finally make its way out to the runway. This is not the first time this has happened this month and PSA has a reputation for doing this in AVL as well. I know most of you guys know better; Please spread the word to those who don't.

Because no ASA plane has ever forgotten to cancel IFR, or done exactly as you have described at any airport. How does shutting down GRR for nearly 45 minutes because the crew forgot to cancel sound?

Get a life, nobody wants to hear your Q.Qing over getting clearance when not #1, it happens, maybe they didn't know you clowns were going out at the same time. Would PSA have had to wait for you while center coordinated your clearance into Hotlanta? Come on, Gomer Pile.

I thought you were saving fuel anyways in the ATRetard.

 

[Volasl]

His qualifications are very strong though . CFII and an FO with 2000 hours. Arent you block or better ?

 

[flytheblue]

There ARE Captains that ask their F/Os to get the clearance before they have even started up, like they are worried about not being able to get the clearance.
I've been one of those F/Os that have been asked to do this, and I just tell them that ATC said they won't give us the clearance till we are at least #1 and ready to go. :nuts:

 

[BoilerUP]

Why in the eff would ATC 1. not issue "hold for release" instructions and 2. issue void times in excess of 10 minutes?

Sure its courteous to not call ready until you're #1, but sounds like ATC down there is seriously lacking...

 

[DrProc]

If I was #1 for departure and it's a full clearance you are still going to wait 10 mins while I plug it into the FMS and verify It's correct. :crying:

Good thing you don't fly to Mexico, where they give you the clearance along with the t/o clearance while you backtaxi down the runway for departure.

 

[goahead]

That's what bad English education gets you.

UMMMMM Incomplete Sentence, Sound the alarm!!!!

 

[centralpilot]

Hold for release is fine. However if crews are receiving a void time and accepting it while still at the gate there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

This is my gripe. I'm fully aware of hold for release procedures. However, in AVL and MGM PSA has frequently gotten released by center while still on the ramp. I just don't appreicate being told to hold for release due to departing traffic, only to find that the "departing" aircraft was still on the ramp while I was approaching the hold short line.

 

[centralpilot]

Well I see you are at a regional who hires low timers as well. Perhaps you yourself should review your way of getting a release and inform the center there as well. You can get a clearance at a closed tower via center whenever! However center should thus tell you to HOLD for release. Thus this is what happens at many MANY uncontrolled fields throughout the United States. I did all my IFR training at an uncontrolled field by Indianapolis and this is exactly what happen all the time. We fly pleanty into OAL (JAX NC) with you're CRJ200s and they do the same thing (while at the gate getting clearnace and told, "hold for relase")

Perhaps one needs to educate themselves first and also edcuate those down in MGM ATC about how to effectively use the "hold for relase." Anyways continue to rant if you wish.

I'll admit I used poor terminology in my first post. My gripe pertained to requesting release from center while still at the gate, not the initial clearance.

 

[Metro752]

Wow, someone pushed someones buttons. Haha!

 

[meyers9163]

I'll admit I used poor terminology in my first post. My gripe pertained to requesting release from center while still at the gate, not the initial clearance.

So now you are telling me that they are declining a hold for release and demanding a release? I will say that operations into CLT as of late especially for AVL allows for the pilots to tell ATC while on the ground the time they will be ready for TO in order to allow flow into CLT. Some new operations CLT has set up. Anyways I also know ATL center hates the operation in general.

If they are indeed saying, "no I want to be released" and refusing to do hold for release then yes you have a gripe. If indeed ATC has given them a release and ATC has done so that's ATC fault not the pilots IMO.

 

[centralpilot]

So now you are telling me that they are declining a hold for release and demanding a release? I will say that operations into CLT as of late especially for AVL allows for the pilots to tell ATC while on the ground the time they will be ready for TO in order to allow flow into CLT. Some new operations CLT has set up. Anyways I also know ATL center hates the operation in general.

If they are indeed saying, "no I want to be released" and refusing to do hold for release then yes you have a gripe. If indeed ATC has given them a release and ATC has done so that's ATC fault not the pilots IMO.

All I know is that they were released while back at the ramp and not #1, and that is has happened often enough to be a pattern. In my experience, center has always asked if we were #1 at the end of the runway before releasing us. I have no idea if PSA has been claiming to be #1 while still on the ramp or if ATC just hasn't been asking before issuing the release. It is possible that it is an ATC issue and if so I appologize. In any case, if I hadn't been sleep deprived this morning I probably wouldn't have been irritated enough to rant in the first place. Now that I've had some sleep, I've remembered that I'm not getting paid nearly enough to get worked up over these things. Please disregard & get back to important matters, like how much mesa sucks.
:beer:

 

[buxflyr]

We fly pleanty into OAL (JAX NC) with you're CRJ200s and they do the same thing (while at the gate getting clearnace and told, "hold for relase")

If you fly plenty into Jax NC, you would know its OAJ.

The real danger there are those crop dusters!

 

[meyers9163]

If you fly plenty into Jax NC, you would know its OAJ.

The real danger there are those crop dusters!

Ah forgive a typo when I'm typing at damn near 100+wpm and making a quick post. I'll be sure to break down on your spelling errors in the future !


The danger at OAJ is the damn FBO manager thinking he owns that field. Trying to yell at the ASA guys when they get clearned straight in at times etc. Saw that dude try to say something to one of their guys the other day. Guess he files a crap load of reports on both ASA/PSA and just wants them out.... Too bad those loads are too packed for both Delta/Airways to pull out!

 

[J32driver]

Had to deal with this in a past life at one particular western airport. The "other" company would always call and get the clearance at the gate. We were scheduled out 5 minutes before they were. Invariably, they would always shut the airport down on us. It got so predictable, that we'd just taxi out before them. Let them pull up behind us where they couldn't turn around... and then we'd refuse to move until they called ATC back and canceled their clearance. Had to go through that twice, and then magically, they quit calling until they were number 1. No more problems for the rest of the year.

 

[belchfire]

Had to deal with this in a past life at one particular western airport. The "other" company would always call and get the clearance at the gate. We were scheduled out 5 minutes before they were. Invariably, they would always shut the airport down on us. It got so predictable, that we'd just taxi out before them. Let them pull up behind us where they couldn't turn around... and then we'd refuse to move until they called ATC back and canceled their clearance. Had to go through that twice, and then magically, they quit calling until they were number 1. No more problems for the rest of the year.

Ya know, that's classic...the other thing to do would be to call Center and say "Scumbag 401 is still at the gate and I'm here at the end of the runway ready to go if you can clear me as filed...your choice, but I'm not going to leave the hold short line and taxi out if his way on an uncontrolled airport."

The other thing you could do is-if your opsspecs allow and the WX is good is to blast off VFR and pick up your clearance airborne. When Center inevitably asks about "Scumbag 401" you can tell him/her that you saw "Scumbag 401" still on the gate and perhaps you should chastize them for blocking the airspace before they are fully ready and thus you won't be compelled to take off VFR and get the clearance airborne...

 

[Metro752]

Omg 100 Wpm!

Blasting off VFR this day and age with a good number of people in the back, in the United States, is just ********************ing stupid.

 

[LandRoverNut]

If you fly plenty into Jax NC, you would know its OAJ.

The real danger there are those crop dusters!

Now you did it! Why did you have to bring up the crop dusters? They are only trying to have fun and make a living!

 

[ThrottleJockey1]

Get it...

Get block or better in your contract and STFU