PSA: Tower closed courtesy

[Metro752]

Wow, someone pushed someones buttons. Haha!

 

[meyers9163]

I'll admit I used poor terminology in my first post. My gripe pertained to requesting release from center while still at the gate, not the initial clearance.

So now you are telling me that they are declining a hold for release and demanding a release? I will say that operations into CLT as of late especially for AVL allows for the pilots to tell ATC while on the ground the time they will be ready for TO in order to allow flow into CLT. Some new operations CLT has set up. Anyways I also know ATL center hates the operation in general.

If they are indeed saying, "no I want to be released" and refusing to do hold for release then yes you have a gripe. If indeed ATC has given them a release and ATC has done so that's ATC fault not the pilots IMO.

 

[centralpilot]

So now you are telling me that they are declining a hold for release and demanding a release? I will say that operations into CLT as of late especially for AVL allows for the pilots to tell ATC while on the ground the time they will be ready for TO in order to allow flow into CLT. Some new operations CLT has set up. Anyways I also know ATL center hates the operation in general.

If they are indeed saying, "no I want to be released" and refusing to do hold for release then yes you have a gripe. If indeed ATC has given them a release and ATC has done so that's ATC fault not the pilots IMO.

All I know is that they were released while back at the ramp and not #1, and that is has happened often enough to be a pattern. In my experience, center has always asked if we were #1 at the end of the runway before releasing us. I have no idea if PSA has been claiming to be #1 while still on the ramp or if ATC just hasn't been asking before issuing the release. It is possible that it is an ATC issue and if so I appologize. In any case, if I hadn't been sleep deprived this morning I probably wouldn't have been irritated enough to rant in the first place. Now that I've had some sleep, I've remembered that I'm not getting paid nearly enough to get worked up over these things. Please disregard & get back to important matters, like how much mesa sucks.
:beer:

 

[buxflyr]

We fly pleanty into OAL (JAX NC) with you're CRJ200s and they do the same thing (while at the gate getting clearnace and told, "hold for relase")

If you fly plenty into Jax NC, you would know its OAJ.

The real danger there are those crop dusters!

 

[meyers9163]

If you fly plenty into Jax NC, you would know its OAJ.

The real danger there are those crop dusters!

Ah forgive a typo when I'm typing at damn near 100+wpm and making a quick post. I'll be sure to break down on your spelling errors in the future !


The danger at OAJ is the damn FBO manager thinking he owns that field. Trying to yell at the ASA guys when they get clearned straight in at times etc. Saw that dude try to say something to one of their guys the other day. Guess he files a crap load of reports on both ASA/PSA and just wants them out.... Too bad those loads are too packed for both Delta/Airways to pull out!

 

[J32driver]

Had to deal with this in a past life at one particular western airport. The "other" company would always call and get the clearance at the gate. We were scheduled out 5 minutes before they were. Invariably, they would always shut the airport down on us. It got so predictable, that we'd just taxi out before them. Let them pull up behind us where they couldn't turn around... and then we'd refuse to move until they called ATC back and canceled their clearance. Had to go through that twice, and then magically, they quit calling until they were number 1. No more problems for the rest of the year.

 

[belchfire]

Had to deal with this in a past life at one particular western airport. The "other" company would always call and get the clearance at the gate. We were scheduled out 5 minutes before they were. Invariably, they would always shut the airport down on us. It got so predictable, that we'd just taxi out before them. Let them pull up behind us where they couldn't turn around... and then we'd refuse to move until they called ATC back and canceled their clearance. Had to go through that twice, and then magically, they quit calling until they were number 1. No more problems for the rest of the year.

Ya know, that's classic...the other thing to do would be to call Center and say "Scumbag 401 is still at the gate and I'm here at the end of the runway ready to go if you can clear me as filed...your choice, but I'm not going to leave the hold short line and taxi out if his way on an uncontrolled airport."

The other thing you could do is-if your opsspecs allow and the WX is good is to blast off VFR and pick up your clearance airborne. When Center inevitably asks about "Scumbag 401" you can tell him/her that you saw "Scumbag 401" still on the gate and perhaps you should chastize them for blocking the airspace before they are fully ready and thus you won't be compelled to take off VFR and get the clearance airborne...

 

[Metro752]

Omg 100 Wpm!

Blasting off VFR this day and age with a good number of people in the back, in the United States, is just ********************ing stupid.

 

[LandRoverNut]

If you fly plenty into Jax NC, you would know its OAJ.

The real danger there are those crop dusters!

Now you did it! Why did you have to bring up the crop dusters? They are only trying to have fun and make a living!

 

[ThrottleJockey1]

Get it...

Get block or better in your contract and STFU

 

[nethan]

Now you did it! Why did you have to bring up the crop dusters? They are only trying to have fun and make a living!

It's the V22 that scares me out there. That and there is no goo approach when the weather is low and they are landing to the south. The crop dusters (mostly) get out of the way at least.

 

[pilotx86]

That's what 200 hrs get's you

first off, not EVERYONE getting hired as an FO has 200-300 hours...yes, the majority, but not all.

secondly, why bitch about waiting ten minutes??? thats more MONEY in the pocket!!!! geez. i would hope for 2 or 3 guys to call clearance and hold everything up. if it wasn't for those "company" captains that wait until the last second to push off the gate to "save the company money." what a crock

 

[BoilerUP]

Get block or better in your contract and STFU

Pretty sure PSA does in fact have block-or-better.

Blasting off VFR this day and age with a good number of people in the back, in the United States, is just ********************ing stupid.

You obviously haven't done it much.

There is nothing unsafe or **********ing stupid about departing VFR, be it 91 or 121/135 if allowed by OpSpecs.

We do it all the time, and OMFG somehow we haven't died yet.

 

[CallmeJB]

We do it all the time, and OMFG somehow we haven't died yet.

Props for being hilarious.

 

[Metro752]

Pretty sure PSA does in fact have block-or-better.



You obviously haven't done it much.

There is nothing unsafe or **********ing stupid about departing VFR, be it 91 or 121/135 if allowed by OpSpecs.

We do it all the time, and OMFG somehow we haven't died yet.

In the age of cellphones, you are going to depart VFR to save 5-10 minutes?

You are such a bad@ss. You should be in the Indiana Aviation Hall of Fame for your time, and cost saving skills.

I'm curious how many times have you launched VFR at an airport you don't normally operate from and couldn't get anyone on the radio after trying several frequencies, until finally getting someone, after circling/cruising slowly, low altitude for several minutes. I've done it flying freight with me, and just an old bastard in the left seat, but why would you do it with all those people in back, if you didn't have to?

It is unsafe if it is an unnecessary risk. Nobody cares what you do as 91, and not so much as 135. A 121 airplane with 50+ people on it should use every tool available to see and avoid traffic.

If taking off VFR is the only way you are going to get a clearance, do it, but if you don't have to, 800-WX-BRIEF with cellphone coverage these days.

Again, I get a kick out of guys with a couple thousand hours talking down to everyone!

 

[J.Otto]

The majority of posts on FI are full of complaints!

Pilots whine whine whine.

 

[BoilerUP]

In the age of cellphones, you are going to depart VFR to save 5-10 minutes?

Yes, I have and I will in the future when it makes sense in a given situation.

You are such a bad@ss. You should be in the Indiana Aviation Hall of Fame for your time, and cost saving skills.

I'm not a badass...hell I'm not even that great of a stick. What I am is a professional pilot, operating within my comfort level and the AOM of the airplane, tasked with the responsibility of providing time-critical transportation for my business while being 100% uncompromising in safety. Not unlike that of any 121 or 135 pilot.

Departing VFR in VMC conditions from an uncontrolled airport does not compromise safety of flight.

I'm curious how many times have you launched VFR at an airport you don't normally operate from and couldn't get anyone on the radio after trying several frequencies, until finally getting someone, after circling/cruising slowly, low altitude for several minutes. I've done it flying freight with me, and just an old bastard in the left seat, but why would you do it with all those people in back, if you didn't have to?

I've personally never had that problem.

It is unsafe if it is an unnecessary risk.

What is the definition of "unnecessary risk"?

Have you ever landed with a tailwind, any tailwind, when you could have taken another 5-10 minutes to land into the wind?

Nobody cares what you do as 91, and not so much as 135. A 121 airplane with 50+ people on it should use every tool available to see and avoid traffic.

121 airliners have TCAS and two sets of eyes to avoid traffic. Getting an ATC clearance out of an uncontrolled airport provides no guarantee whatsoever that Uncle Jimbo in his 172 won't blow up the pattern and bang into you, despite your best efforts.

Again, I get a kick out of guys with a couple thousand hours talking down to everyone!

I don't talk down to people; its not my nature. As such I'm not talking down to you...I'm "talking down" to your attitude that something you personally are uncomfortable doing is unsafe for everybody.

I'm gonna say it again: Departing VFR in VMC conditions from an uncontrolled airport does not compromise safety of flight.

You wouldn't happen to go by the name of a Chicago 'burb on that other web board, would you?

 

[BrownStreak]

Pretty sure PSA does in fact have block-or-better.quote]

We sure do! So why not pull off the gate and get the clock started, then wait for the tower to open before you go? I get paid by the minute, so I'm more than happy to wait for them. Besides, on that early morning stuff if you try to haul @ss to launch for CLT from 70 miles away you're just going to make 100 s turns before they can work you in anyway...may as well wait out your turn chillin on the ground...on the clock.

At the uncontrolled fields........I don't know why some people think it's not possible to just wait until we're ready to go to get the clearance. I have actually found it quite comical to see the look of panic on the FO's face when they can't figure out who to call. I guess if I had 200 hours I'd be oblivious to how that works, too. It's not like it's a mystery what the clearance is going to be, and we can just verify it before we blast off. If there's a change and we miss the slot we were given while we fix it, then so be it. Again, we're paid by the minute. It's rude to block other guys trying to get out if they're ready first....but the hold for release thing should eliminate that problem.

BTW....is there some memo I didn't get about saying "and" at the beginning of every radio transmission? All the new guys are doing this and I want to know where in hell it came from. And what? Is there something about saying "and" that makes you seem cooler on the radio? Where did this come from?

 

[EMB170Pilot]

Pretty sure PSA does in fact have block-or-better.quote]

We sure do! So why not pull off the gate and get the clock started, then wait for the tower to open before you go? I get paid by the minute, so I'm more than happy to wait for them. Besides, on that early morning stuff if you try to haul @ss to launch for CLT from 70 miles away you're just going to make 100 s turns before they can work you in anyway...may as well wait out your turn chillin on the ground...on the clock.

At the uncontrolled fields........I don't know why some people think it's not possible to just wait until we're ready to go to get the clearance. I have actually found it quite comical to see the look of panic on the FO's face when they can't figure out who to call. I guess if I had 200 hours I'd be oblivious to how that works, too. It's not like it's a mystery what the clearance is going to be, and we can just verify it before we blast off. If there's a change and we miss the slot we were given while we fix it, then so be it. Again, we're paid by the minute. It's rude to block other guys trying to get out if they're ready first....but the hold for release thing should eliminate that problem.

BTW....is there some memo I didn't get about saying "and" at the beginning of every radio transmission? All the new guys are doing this and I want to know where in hell it came from. And what? Is there something about saying "and" that makes you seem cooler on the radio? Where did this come from?

Real pilots don't start sentences with prepositions.

 

[willNOTfly4free]

In the age of cellphones, you are going to depart VFR to save 5-10 minutes?

Yes. Please explain why you feel departing VFR from a non-towered airport when the wx is 10-n-CLR is unsafe.

It is unsafe if it is an unnecessary risk.

Please explain the increase in risk.

Nobody cares what you do as 91

Who doesn't care? The company, boss, chief pilot, FAA, NTSB, local nearby residents, airport manager, ATC. I can think of many people who care about how an aircraft is operated pt 91.

and not so much as 135.

Do you imply that pilots flying an airplane under pt 135 are more conservative and are safer in their operation of the airplane? I respectfully disagree. I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt, filled out the NASA form, and I'm not going back to that type of operation.

A 121 airplane with 50+ people on it should use every tool available to see and avoid traffic.

I wasn't aware obtaining a clearance while on the ground increases safety. Nor does it aid pilots with the ability to see and avoid other air traffic.

Why does it matter how many people are in the back of the airplane? Should I be extra safe with a full load onboard?

If taking off VFR is the only way you are going to get a clearance, do it, but if you don't have to, 800-WX-BRIEF with cellphone coverage these days.

There's now a dedicated Lockheed Martin clearance delivery phone number. Welcome to 2008.