Reionals fate? Delta/NWA Merger?

[JoeMerchant]

Yes. ALPA MEC's must WORK TOGETHER, to protect all of our jobs TOGETHER. This is simple stuff, but it seems it is too simple for many pilots to understand:

Unity is strength. This is not just a slogan, but an absolute truth.

Airline managements are extremely proficient experts at another simple war strategy: Divide and conquer.

Why can't ALPA do this? They seem more worried in losing USAir dues.....There has never been any true "unity" in ALPA.....it has all been smoke and mirrors....

The chickens are coming home to roost....

 

[Striptyler]

Funny, and wrong thread for this but... IS it clear now why PAI bought colgan, and the Q400? How about is it clear why the Pinnacle Guys want the Q and non DAL/NWA flying on their side?

 

[Flyer1015]

Funny, and wrong thread for this but... IS it clear now why PAI bought colgan, and the Q400? How about is it clear why the Pinnacle Guys want the Q and non DAL/NWA flying on their side?

Um, we want a fair new contract. And we want our management to comply with the arbitrator's decisions, and not b*tch about how "the arbitrator's ruling doesn't affect/apply to the holding company." That whole holding company BS started by our management in an attempt to circumvent the provisions of our pilot contract.

 

[Poahi]

The next thread in the Majors section will be for the ALPA decertification push over at the Red Tail. These guys are going to get hit hard.

 

[DoinTime]

Why can't ALPA do this?

Joe, you must have some broken circuits in your head. In order for ALPA National to strip the MECs of their autonomy the board of directors would have to approve the action. Im sure you know exactly who the board of directors is comprised of and why its going to be so difficult for it to ever happen

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe, you must have some broken circuits in your head. In order for ALPA National to strip the MECs of their autonomy the board of directors would have to approve the action. Im sure you know exactly who the board of directors is comprised of and why its going to be so difficult for it to ever happen

I realize that...just wondering what took you ALPA cheerleaders so long.....Now you are beginning to see the primary failure of this so called "union"....It isn't really a union and we aren't going to work together....

We either have autonomy and do what is best for ourselves at the harm of others....or we lose the autonomy.....Can't have it both ways.....

 

[Speedtape]

I realize that...just wondering what took you ALPA cheerleaders so long.....Now you are beginning to see the primary failure of this so called "union"....It isn't really a union and we aren't going to work together....

We either have autonomy and do what is best for ourselves at the harm of others....or we lose the autonomy.....Can't have it both ways.....

Unfortunately, I am starting to agree with you. It's more like the Bedouin Society--soon to be 10,000 strong, leading the other 51,000!

 

[Striptyler]

Um, we want a fair new contract. And we want our management to comply with the arbitrator's decisions, and not b*tch about how "the arbitrator's ruling doesn't affect/apply to the holding company." That whole holding company BS started by our management in an attempt to circumvent the provisions of our pilot contract.

Sounds like pre-programed propoganda there, but yet does nothing to answer the question.

Pinnacle Bought Colgan to diversify. Post Merger, should 9E get dropped, who's got a job still? yeah.

On the pilots side... Should all the CRJ flying stop... Wouldn't be wonderfull if you could simply move down to a Q400, displace a few pilots, and keep your job? yeah - But that only happens with a merged Sen. list.. right?

Not flaming, just sayin you would have to be blind not to see this one coming.

 

[Flyer1015]

Sounds like pre-programed propoganda there, but yet does nothing to answer the question.

Pinnacle Bought Colgan to diversify. Post Merger, should 9E get dropped, who's got a job still? yeah.

On the pilots side... Should all the CRJ flying stop... Wouldn't be wonderfull if you could simply move down to a Q400, displace a few pilots, and keep your job? yeah - But that only happens with a merged Sen. list.. right?

Not flaming, just sayin you would have to be blind not to see this one coming.

You clearly don't work for Pinnacle. And from the way it seems, you don't work at Colgan either.

"Post Merger, should 9E get dropped, who's got a job still?"

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Spoken like true management! I expect it from a-holes like them, not from pilots like you.

Wouldn't be wonderfull if you could simply move down to a Q400, displace a few pilots, and keep your job? yeah - But that only happens with a merged Sen. list.. right?

Where did that Q400 come from? Off whose back? Where did the money come from to buy Colgan? Oh, that's right, the convertible note that Pinnacle received (upwards of $300 million dollars) from NWA. Money earned off the backs of the hard working Pinnacle employees. Money used to buy another airline. Money used to set up the "Pinnacle Holding Company" purely to sidestep our contract (illegally) so they could violate our pilot contract, and not have provisions apply.

Like it or not, Colgan was bought out. Then they refused to let ALPA on their property. I hope Pinnacle alpa is able to enforce the arbitrator's rulings, and get our management to comply with the ruling. Merged seniority list? Yes, but I don't know exactly what the specifics would be to merge the list.

 

[Striptyler]

Spoken like true management! I expect it from a-holes like them, not from pilots like you.

quote]
Ahh.. was referring to the fact that MANAGMENT would still have a job.

Colgan would have the Q's one way or another. Had Pinnacle not bought us, somebody else would have. We would only be having the Q debate with somebody else. The Q's were in the original Contract award with CAL back in 04, as reward for the hard work, sweat and tears colgan pilots poured into getting an understaffed, unorganized, poorly run operatoin off the ground.

Heck, at 1 point, 9L was working with CAL to try to get CAL to flip the bill. They didn't, but would certainly look smart now had they.

Anyways, i am thinking right now ALPA's got bigger fish on the mind (NWA/DAL) PT and friends will stall untill the outcome from said merger.Should 9E get dropped... at that point i think there is little question what they would do. Otherwise, they will prob. come to the table... just slowly.

Sure, you can call me names, and make assumtions for whom i fly/dispatch For, or what desk i drive HQ. I really don't care either way. I've said it before, i will say it again. You were NEVER gonna get any of that money. How long has your contract date been up? What changes have you seen? What makes you think this will be any diffrent?


How bout, i feel bad for ANYBODY who's got a low Sen# at ANY company right now. I still see FO's running from colgan to Republic, dropping any Sen.# they had. I remember back in 02, we had guys with 15,000+ hours submitting App's.

 

[Dubya]

NO, those pilot groups throwing scope out like it is an STD, is the reason we all have jobs.

Which begs and even more important question. What does it mean when I pee and it burns?

W

 

[Flyer1015]

Colgan would have the Q's one way or another. Had Pinnacle not bought us, somebody else would have. We would only be having the Q debate with somebody else. The Q's were in the original Contract award with CAL back in 04, as reward for the hard work, sweat and tears colgan pilots poured into getting an understaffed, unorganized, poorly run operatoin off the ground.

Colgan has been losing money for Pinnacle "Holdings."

Heck, at 1 point, 9L was working with CAL to try to get CAL to flip the bill. They didn't, but would certainly look smart now had they.

... but they couldn't.

Sure, you can call me names, and make assumtions for whom i fly/dispatch For, or what desk i drive HQ. I really don't care either way. I've said it before, i will say it again. You were NEVER gonna get any of that money. How long has your contract date been up? What changes have you seen? What makes you think this will be any diffrent?

It will be 3 years exactly as of May 1. "We were never gonna get any of that money." All the more reason we should STFD!

What changes have we seen? Lets see, we've seen management stalling. We've seen management come unprepared and unwilling to work during the NMB negotiation sessions. We've seen management now asking for concessions on portions already TAed on, in exchange for things like 100% deadhead pay.

What makes "this" different? The fact than an arbitrator ruled in our favor, and not the "holding" company's favor. But those a-holes told the pilot group the arbitrator has no jurisdiction over the "holding" company. LMAO! I have to hand it to our management team for being the slimiest pieces of a-holes.

How bout, i feel bad for ANYBODY who's got a low Sen# at ANY company right now. I still see FO's running from colgan to Republic, dropping any Sen.# they had. I remember back in 02, we had guys with 15,000+ hours submitting App's.

Um, ok? The arbitrator ruled in our favor. We should merge the list. End a potential whipsaw that our management team is easily getting their teeth ready for. The arbitrator clearly saw our management's sneakiness.

My prediction? This may take a while in court. But in the end, we will win and get our management to merge the lists. As for how, I don't know. Probably have some fences here and there. But I don't know.

 

[HA25]

Therefore, there are a lot more regional jobs because of relaxed scope. You don't see the 2500 hour flight instructor desperate to find a 19 seat turboprop job like years ago. Yes we are all in this together, but regionals have grown rapidly and your plethora of jobs are around because of (poor) decisions by the guys at the Majors.

There my friends is a guy who knows what's going on! LISTEN TO HIM.

If the ALPA/APA pilots at the majors would demand one seniority list and one contract, none of this "regional" and "Major" crap would exist.. We've aided and abetted in this mess and managers at airlines all over couldn't be happier with our stupidity.

 

[rickair7777]

There my friends is a guy who knows what's going on! LISTEN TO HIM.

If the ALPA/APA pilots at the majors would demand one seniority list and one contract, none of this "regional" and "Major" crap would exist.. We've aided and abetted in this mess and managers at airlines all over couldn't be happier with our stupidity.

The problem with one-list is that a ten year LCDR with 1900 hours in the hornet, 6 air medals, and a DFC would end up a reserve 1900 FO... clearly unacceptable.

 

[79%N1]

The problem with one-list is that a ten year LCDR with 1900 hours in the hornet, 6 air medals, and a DFC would end up a reserve 1900 FO... clearly unacceptable.

Yep, and that right there is how this whole mess got started.......the sense of entitlement by some that they deserved only to fly the big iron, and the props and barbie's should be flown only by those less deserving.

 

[HA25]

The problem with one-list is that a ten year LCDR with 1900 hours in the hornet, 6 air medals, and a DFC would end up a reserve 1900 FO... clearly unacceptable.

Wasn't taking about 1900's... talking about E170+ sized jets and taking about making the pay on those in-line with "Mainline".. that would be acceptable.

 

[DoinTime]

The problem with one-list is that a ten year LCDR with 1900 hours in the hornet, 6 air medals, and a DFC would end up a reserve 1900 FO... clearly unacceptable.

No....not unacceptable at all. To think it is is pure elitism.

 

[Blade Runner]

The problem with one-list is that a ten year LCDR with 1900 hours in the hornet, 6 air medals, and a DFC would end up a reserve 1900 FO... clearly unacceptable.

You just don't get it do you?
This is not a merit based system, it is a first come first serve, right place right time, seniority based system.
Your LCDR should have remained in the NAVY and
recieved a well deserved promotion. But then again is the Military a true merit based sytem itself, or just another clique of savy political officers greasing their skids (so to speak) at the expense of others?
I digress and will save that argument for a later day.

 

[MJ42]

You just don't get it do you?
This is not a merit based system, it is a first come first serve, right place right time, seniority based system.
Your LCDR should have remained in the NAVY and
recieved a well deserved promotion. But then again is the Military a true merit based sytem itself, or just another clique of savy political officers greasing their skids (so to speak) at the expense of others?
I digress and will save that argument for a later day.

NO, You Don't get it! I'm surprised, especially from another C-130 guy.

I'll take a Military Aviator any day over those guys who bought their job by paying for training in the mid to late 1990's.

If you want a merit based system then how about go by the date each pilot received their Comm, Inst, ME rating or if military the date they got their wings.

This way those PFTers that bypassed seniority (and still attempt to gain even more by their one list methodology) won't screw those of us who didn't buy a job. Also, this would be fair to those who chose to severe in the military. Furthermore, corporate guys who had the desire to fly at a major but decided to go another career route than a regional would not be penalized by my suggestion.

Any way you look at it, it's not going to happen. If it does it will be well after most of us retire. Just because you fly a few years at a 121 regional shouldn't mean you get to leapfrog corporate guys that maybe didn't have the same opportunities(because of lack of jobs in the 1990's) as you, or military pilots who chose to serve our country.

We all choose different routes to get to our goal, you guys seem to want to penalize those that chose a route different from yours!

Keep dreamin!

 

[HA25]

NO, You Don't get it! I'm surprised, especially from another C-130 guy.

I'll take a Military Aviator any day over those guys who bought their job by paying for training in the mid to late 1990's.

If you want a merit based system then how about go by the date each pilot received their Comm, Inst, ME rating or if military the date they got their wings.

This way those PFTers that bypassed seniority (and still attempt to gain even more by their one list methodology) won't screw those of us who didn't buy a job. Also, this would be fair to those who chose to severe in the military. Furthermore, corporate guys who had the desire to fly at a major but decided to go another career route than a regional would not be penalized by my suggestion.

Any way you look at it, it's not going to happen. If it does it will be well after most of us retire. Just because you fly a few years at a 121 regional shouldn't mean you get to leapfrog corporate guys that maybe didn't have the same opportunities(because of lack of jobs in the 1990's) as you, or military pilots who chose to serve our country.

We all choose different routes to get to our goal, you guys seem to want to penalize those that chose a route different from yours!

Keep dreamin!

No.. no.. you don't get it! btw, I like your posts for the most part and been reading a lot of them in research on Compass but I have to agree with the above.. it's 90% timing and 10% merit in this business. Timing decides if the military is hiring and timing decides when the economy dictates when airlines hire and timing is when you get the interview, and what seniority you're assigned as a result..

timing..