Cal ecpected to cave on scope

[bizicmo]

He was in his early 40's and not that senior so he wasn't a scab.

 

[AWACoff]

Scab lover/Scab, same difference. We've got plenty of those out here in GUM. Too bad for those lowlife, spineless, swampass smellin', management lovin', scab thinkin' morons there is a new sheriff in town. We will ram a great contract down their throats if that's what it takes.

 

[flygirlqt]

Scab lover/Scab, same difference. .

So the other mainline ALPA carriers that gave away scope and sold out the junior ends of their lists are scabs also?

I'll tell you this, I have flown with more guys that are not scabs that scare me a hell of a lot more than the actual scabs.

 

[waveflyer]

scab isn't the right word- but it's not far off- it's been the biggest factor in wrecking our union and our leverage in the past decade.

Yes- I hold ALL network major airline pilots to task on this issue- and all pilots my age should as well....

 

[LJDRVR]

There will be NO scope relief at CAL. This company is making money hand over foot right now, in a world-class competitive position against other network carriers and although some of our weak-minded folks will be fooled by their "hide the profit" Ponzi schemes and "Woe is us, fuel is sooo expensive", here's a simple fact:

A very large chunk of this seniority list have been through the contract negotiation process at XJT and know bullcrap when they see it. We've been bent over by POS 02' and are pissed. The majority of our pilots here have been burned by the 274 RJ's across the parking lot - both in terms of lost mainline flying, but also in terms of a longer wait to get over here to mainline.

We will not be fooled again. There are not enough SCABs and wife-number-five-A-funders left to get scared by the fear machine and outvote our demographic.

Scope is a strike issue and will be treated as such by a majority of our pilot group.

 

[Jetjockey]

I love hearing that 'military' argument that a new hire fresh from the military wouldn't want to fly a small jet. That is bull manure! That attitude is so 1970. Maybe back then it was argument since everything was regulated. USAirways doesn't seem to have trouble finding applicants for their E170 classes. I hope you told that CA he was a tool, and was speaking from his sphincter.

SCOPE STAYS!

 

[waveflyer]

hey, AAA got it only half right- they still fell for the mid-atlantic scam=- and still let management sell out the 170/175's to republic... they at least got the 190's, but before you give them too much credit- their capt's top out at $95/hour-- Republic guys make a lot more ($116/hr) w/ a LOT better work rules. Which is good- get paid NOW -& de-incentive management into giving you the flying... that's very good republic- you're a smart group--

 

[COpilot]

I will not vote yes for any TA that has 70 seat jets, with Continental painted on the side; unless flown by CO pilots.

Funny hearing people casting stones at us on this thread. Lets review:

UA, 70 seaters not UA pilots
US, 70 seaters not US pilots
NW,70 seaters not NW pilots
AA, 70 seaters not AA pilots
DL, 70 seaters not DL pilots
AK, 70 seaters not AK pilots

Even those scabs have held stronger than die hard ALPA members at most airlines, isen't that some $h!t?

 

[Captain Overs]

Scab lover/Scab, same difference. We've got plenty of those out here in GUM. Too bad for those lowlife, spineless, swampass smellin', management lovin', scab thinkin' morons there is a new sheriff in town. We will ram a great contract down their throats if that's what it takes.

"great contract" what does that mean? You guys have a concessionary contract right now. You dreaming if you think you'll make it back.

I feel for the CAL pilots because every time its time to talk money with management the economy is in the tank and oil is spiraling upward.

 

[AWACoff]

So the other mainline ALPA carriers that gave away scope and sold out the junior ends of their lists are scabs also?

I'll tell you this, I have flown with more guys that are not scabs that scare me a hell of a lot more than the actual scabs.

Girl, let me try to make it clearer. Scab lover/Scab same difference. That does not mean they are the same but they sure think alike.

You see Girl, you are a scab lover too. You've previously posted about how these SCABS you are flying with are really nice guys. I realize you are totally ignorant but these scumbags have proven they will stab you in the back just to pick up that penny they see on the ground. They ruined peoples' lives. Some killed themselves over this. Families fell apart. So you go right on telling yourself that these money grubbing whores are "nice people". Maybe you can cross the picket line next time with your buddies.

 

[AWACoff]

I will not vote yes for any TA that has 70 seat jets, with Continental painted on the side; unless flown by CO pilots.

Funny hearing people casting stones at us on this thread. Lets review:

UA, 70 seaters not UA pilots
US, 90 seaters not US pilots
NW,70 seaters not NW pilots
AA, 70 seaters not AA pilots
DL, 90 seaters not DL pilots
AK, 70 seaters not AK pilots

Even those scabs have held stronger than die hard ALPA members at most airlines, isen't that some $h!t?

Fixed.

 

[flygirlqt]

Girl, let me try to make it clearer. Scab lover/Scab same difference. That does not mean they are the same but they sure think alike.

You see Girl, you are a scab lover too. You've previously posted about how these SCABS you are flying with are really nice guys. I realize you are totally ignorant but these scumbags have proven they will stab you in the back just to pick up that penny they see on the ground. They ruined peoples' lives. Some killed themselves over this. Families fell apart. So you go right on telling yourself that these money grubbing whores are "nice people". Maybe you can cross the picket line next time with your buddies.

What an intelligent and mature reply. The scumbags that have proven they will stab their own pilots in the back also hide behind the facade of the ALPA brotherhood. My point before and now, which is obviously very easily lost lost on your limited ability to reason and differentiate is the entire industry sans the cal pilots have been sold out by ALPA regarding scope. I would say that is very ironic given your post.

Just because I have stated before that it is very concerning to me that when you listen to some of their opinions about ALPA that ring true doesn't mean I condone their actions. I clearly stated that before and stand by that now. Perhaps you are just to immature and ignorant to see the difference? Do I have to type that slower for you or will that ruin your sophomoric attempts to insult me?

Incidentally, the actions you described about families being destroyed have also been perpetrated by ALPA members upon other ALPA members. As far as stabbing people in the back, my father was a rEAL pilot who watched his brother ALPA pilots at Delta step over each other to pick up the slack when Eastern was on strike. So I certainly don't need anyone like you to give me a lecture about unionism.

 

[Kugelblitz]

So the other mainline ALPA carriers that gave away scope and sold out the junior ends of their lists are scabs also?

I'll tell you this, I have flown with more guys that are not scabs that scare me a hell of a lot more than the actual scabs.

Ms., I don't know who you have been flying with, but that is truly the polar opposite of the experiences of the majority of pilots at this airline (regarding flying with scabs). I don't fault you for your ALPA opinions, this is an industry of nihilist.

 

[flygirlqt]

Ms., I don't know who you have been flying with, but that is truly the polar opposite of the experiences of the majority of pilots at this airline (regarding flying with scabs). I don't fault you for your ALPA opinions, this is an industry of nihilist.

A lot of former fmr's and some very junior Captains. Thank you for understanding my opinions of ALPA. Unlike a very select few on this board, you can see and respect there is a difference in opinions.

 

[BID]

"great contract" what does that mean? You guys have a concessionary contract right now. You dreaming if you think you'll make it back.

I feel for the CAL pilots because every time its time to talk money with management the economy is in the tank and oil is spiraling upward.

You know what? you are right, lets just give up right now.

 

[Ex737Driver]

"great contract" what does that mean? You guys have a concessionary contract right now. You dreaming if you think you'll make it back.

I feel for the CAL pilots because every time its time to talk money with management the economy is in the tank and oil is spiraling upward.

I have a dream...............

 

[davessn763]

Unity Pays!

wife-number-five-A-funders

[sarcasm on]Niiice! Please continue to divide our pilot group more, this will only strengthen our leverage![sarcasm off]

Apparently you learned all about unity during your short time at XJT.

signed
wife-number-one-B-funder

 

[jetpig32]

Fixed.

Add CO, 76 Seat (and growing) Q400, not CO pilots?

Why should scope be relaxed on a t-prop that may soon be 90+ seats. (Search Q400x)

 

[Palomino]

Add CO, 76 Seat (and growing) Q400, not CO pilots?

Why should scope be relaxed on a t-prop that may soon be 90+ seats. (Search Q400x)

“Small Turboprop” means turboprop aircraft with an FAA certification of seventynine
(79) or fewer seats.

“Small Jet” means jet aircraft with an FAA certification of fifty (50) or fewer seats.

Our scope keeps anything larger than these aircraft at the mainline level. Thus creating more mainline jobs, more mainline payscales, more mainline retirement benefits, and more mainline opportunities.

Turboprops are great. If CAL finds one that is bigger than 79 seats and wants to fly our passengers with it then I will bid LTP and be paid nicely for it. Sounds like fun.

I have zero issues with the size of the airplane. Sad to say, but if you were to look at our scope section and apply it to 30 years ago then CAL's group would be laughed at. Now we are 'holding the line' on equipment that continues to blur the careers of the profession. The L188s, DC-9s, F28s, F100s of today are now being flown for the same wages 30 years later (without being adjusted for inflation). That has had a dramatic affect on pilot wages across the board from the regional level to the majors.

I hope to see a LTP or a new breed SNB at CAL...with Continental Airlines on the side and a CAL crew steering the ship.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Fixed.

Though still not correct

 

[Kugelblitz]

A lot of former fmr's and some very junior Captains. Thank you for understanding my opinions of ALPA. Unlike a very select few on this board, you can see and respect there is a difference in opinions.

Honestly, when I hired on here 3 years ago my thoughts were to not get involved in the scab debate because those events were well ahead of my time (I was still in high school) and it seemed odd to continue this issue for so long.

Nonetheless, I have noticed that one can tell a scab within minutes of getting in the cockpit. There is something about the old 'law of primacy' that is lacking in every detail of their demeanor and flight management. Just an opinion.

As for the FMR's, I only recently learned who they are and don't correlate them with scabs in any way. My chief pilot (756 Ass't chief) is an fmr and the only decent person I have ever worked with in the front office at CAL.

 

[AWACoff]

Though still not correct

wmu, DL and US don't have 90 seaters flying for them at the express carriers...? Are they flying the 76 seat CRJ900s?

 

[bizicmo]

“Small Turboprop” means turboprop aircraft with an FAA certification of seventynine
(79) or fewer seats.

“Small Jet” means jet aircraft with an FAA certification of fifty (50) or fewer seats.

Our scope keeps anything larger than these aircraft at the mainline level. Thus creating more mainline jobs, more mainline payscales, more mainline retirement benefits, and more mainline opportunities.

Turboprops are great. If CAL finds one that is bigger than 79 seats and wants to fly our passengers with it then I will bid LTP and be paid nicely for it. Sounds like fun.

I have zero issues with the size of the airplane. Sad to say, but if you were to look at our scope section and apply it to 30 years ago then CAL's group would be laughed at. Now we are 'holding the line' on equipment that continues to blur the careers of the profession. The L188s, DC-9s, F28s, F100s of today are now being flown for the same wages 30 years later (without being adjusted for inflation). That has had a dramatic affect on pilot wages across the board from the regional level to the majors.

I hope to see a LTP or a new breed SNB at CAL...with Continental Airlines on the side and a CAL crew steering the ship.

Is CAL scope stated as 50 jets and 79 seat t-props or "small jet" and " small turboprop?" I ask because 50 and 79 seats will always be 50 and 79 seats. "Small jet" and "small turboprop" might not always mean 50 seats and 79 seats. I imagine its not hard to get the Faa to change that.

 

[kngarthur]

Baaaaaahhhh! I don't think mainline should give up on scope! Baaaaaaaaaaahhhh! Yea, regional jets belong at mainline!!!! Baaaaaaahhh! I can't think for myself!!!! I'm living in fantasyland! Obama good!!! McCain Baaaaad!

 

[Max Powers]

I am willing to strike for many things and scope is one of them. We will not be caving on scope. Nothing to see here folks...move along.

I hope your right......But what happens, oil at 130-140, with 500+ CAL furloughs and a looming bankruptcy. Will ALPA fold to save the senior guys their job. Or will we finally step up to the plate and say NO MORE freaking outsourcing!!!!!!

 

[Dr.Hwang]

Gay. This whole thread is gay. We'll all know more when a TA is published, and then posted.

 

[Kugelblitz]

Gay. This whole thread is gay. We'll all know more when a TA is published, and then posted.

.......3 years from now.

 

[Skywriter70]

Not NOW, Not EVER!!!!

Never will that be acceptable, and most certainly is a strikable item even if it puts me on the streets for a while.

Do not ask again, and don't throw things in like this trying to distract us from the big picture. In addition, take your damn buddy passes. Positive space on another airline for a cheaper cost from now on!!! Oh yeah, they probably will ask us to negotiate for these back at a lower rate attempting to distract us from the real case at hand. Pissing employees off who make you your "RECORD PROFITS" can cost you more than they know...

And, you are welcome for the zero interest loan CAL. And, no it wasn't my piece of the pie you had... It was my hard earned cash you took, used, and didn't pay me interest on...

Get Real... we are still the second lowest paid LEGECY carrier... Look at the stats...

 

[SuperFLUF]

Is CAL scope stated as 50 jets and 79 seat t-props or "small jet" and " small turboprop?" I ask because 50 and 79 seats will always be 50 and 79 seats. "Small jet" and "small turboprop" might not always mean 50 seats and 79 seats. I imagine its not hard to get the Faa to change that.

The "small jet" and "small turboprop" monikers are used in the scope section.

Their definitions as 50 seats and 79 seat "FAA certification" are also in the scope section under definitions.

The FAA can change whatever they want but its the numbers in the contractual definition that are binding to CAL.

 

[waveflyer]

“Small Turboprop” means turboprop aircraft with an FAA certification of seventynine
(79) or fewer seats.

“Small Jet” means jet aircraft with an FAA certification of fifty (50) or fewer seats.

Our scope keeps anything larger than these aircraft at the mainline level. Thus creating more mainline jobs, more mainline payscales, more mainline retirement benefits, and more mainline opportunities.

Turboprops are great. If CAL finds one that is bigger than 79 seats and wants to fly our passengers with it then I will bid LTP and be paid nicely for it. Sounds like fun.

I have zero issues with the size of the airplane. Sad to say, but if you were to look at our scope section and apply it to 30 years ago then CAL's group would be laughed at. Now we are 'holding the line' on equipment that continues to blur the careers of the profession. The L188s, DC-9s, F28s, F100s of today are now being flown for the same wages 30 years later (without being adjusted for inflation). That has had a dramatic affect on pilot wages across the board from the regional level to the majors.

I hope to see a LTP or a new breed SNB at CAL...with Continental Airlines on the side and a CAL crew steering the ship.

Fantastic post. well said.

How about instead of all of us getting defensive or comparing penis sizes- we all realize that major airlines started out flying B-247's and DC-3's. When did we become too good to fly ANY turboprop? I don't care if they want me to fly a hot air balloon, more lists equals more whipsawing. We've seen where that has got us.

This is one of my complaints w/ ALPA-national- they should charge every MEC in the country to come up w/ a plan to get all brand flying back done by ONE list. I'm not seeing leadership.

In the meantime- way to truly "get" it Continental. Stand strong on this. If scope goes any direction- it's to get smaller airplanes on mainline property.