Thanks SkyW

[samfu_1]

When are you guys gonna get it through your head that skw pilots are not lower paid. There's much more to a paycheck than just an hourly rate. Whatever the rates are in this CPA, they aren't cheaper because of pilot labor.

Do you have the rule as a SKW pilot to get 100% DHD pay? Do you get to train on days that you originally had a trip on or do you have to train on days off? Do you get a vacation schedule that gives you any trip dropped that your vacation touches? Those are huge things that net our pilot group lots of extra pay.

 

[007]

I bet CAL will end up giving up scope just to get rid of PBS. In the end, they always have voted yes to the first offer.....Please prove me wrong.

 

[Ezralite]

I bet CAL will end up giving up scope just to get rid of PBS.

Now that's just retarded.

 

[WalterSobchak]

I would hope that as professionals that most likely have an advanced education, advanced training, and have spent years getting to this career level, as well as the responsibilities that we have, not to mention the cost to our careers and personal lives that we pay, along with the threat of the loss of the career (not just a job) hanging on the whims of the FAA ...... That "....overall the package is still a better setup than what I had in my AirTran ramp days...."

Should you be paid commensurate to your training and expertise? Absolutely, I'm not going to argue with you there. However, you chose the career and knew what you were getting into. You were aware of the pitfalls as well as the possibilites, and it drives me nuts when a pilot starts throwing around the "my career is always in jeopardy" line.

You think I don't put my career on the line every time a build a flight release (of which I do 45-60 of everyday)? And, yes, I said "career", as this is what I've chosen...I'm no pilot wannabe as we so often are accused (as I've stated before, I'm way too smart and not bitter enough to fly airplanes for a living). I'm damn good at and very much enjoy what I do in OCC.

My work gets reviewed and picked apart at random anytime the feds feel like it...they're thorough, too. One misstep without an accompanying ASAP...and I get called to the carpet. Not to mention the millions of other occurrences throughout out an operations day that can fall under the scrutiny of various government agencies and result in fines to the company and my termination. What I'm saying is, you're not the only one putting the career on the line everyday.

While I'm on a tangent...I've been seeing alot of "the hand on the throttle holds all the power" BS popping up all over FI lately. I would just like to remind you all that, like it or not, you are cogs in a machine...just like the dispatchers, flight attendants, rampers, CS agents, etc. One group walks, the whole thing falls apart. You're no more powerful than the lowest rung if they should choose to walk.

Here's some food for thought...a few hundred of you call out sick and we call in some reserves and cancel some flights. Twenty of us call out...and the airline calls it a day because of the inability to maintain operational control. See, we all hold the power...

All said, I was only pointing out my 401(k) and bonus package is better between the two companies...and I was talking strictly 401(k)/bonus and not A/B funds, etc.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Should you be paid commensurate to your training and expertise? Absolutely, I'm not going to argue with you there. However, you chose the career and knew what you were getting into. You were aware of the pitfalls as well as the possibilites, and it drives me nuts when a pilot starts throwing around the "my career is always in jeopardy" line.

You think I don't put my career on the line every time a build a flight release (of which I do 45-60 of everyday)? And, yes, I said "career", as this is what I've chosen...I'm no pilot wannabe as we so often are accused (as I've stated before, I'm way too smart and not bitter enough to fly airplanes for a living). I'm damn good at and very much enjoy what I do in OCC.

My work gets reviewed and picked apart at random anytime I feds feels like it...they're thorough, too. One misstep without an accompanying ASAP...and I get called to the carpet. Not to mention the millions of other occurrences throughout out an operations day that can fall under the scrutiny of various government agencies and result in fines to the company and my termination. What I'm saying is, you're not the only one putting the career on the line everyday.

While I'm on a tangent...I've been seeing alot of "the hand on the throttle holds all the power" BS popping up all over FI lately. I would just like to remind you all that, like it or not, you are cogs in a machine...just like the dispatchers, flight attendants, rampers, CS agents, etc. One group walks, the whole thing falls apart. You're no more powerful than the lowest rung if they should choose to walk.

Here's some food for thought...a few hundred of you call out sick and we call in some reserves and cancel some flights. Twenty of us call out...and the airline calls it a day because of the inability to maintain operational control. See, we all hold the power...

All said, I was only pointing out my 401(k) and bonus package is better between the two companies...and I was talking strictly 401(k)/bonus and not A/B funds, etc.

I hate to burst your bubble, but you do know we operated thousands of flights for many years without a single dispatcher on the property?...

 

[WalterSobchak]

I hate to burst your bubble, but you do know we operated thousands of flights for many years without a single dispatcher on the property?...

Sorry to disappoint, but no bubble burst...completely aware, compadre. I know my history. Just kinda tough to operate a 121 Passenger Operation without us...or without any other cog in the machine, so to speak.

 

[Gandalf]

Walter,

Re-read Sweptback and my responses......."The problem with employees in this industry is that they compare their benefits to only peer airlines....and ......"as professionals..."

Neither one was pitting pilots vs. dispatchers. And it drives me nuts whenever someone pulls the "you chose the career and knew what you were getting into..." card. Yes, I did. But, that doesn't mean that I can't hope for and work towards improving certain aspects about the career.

....."I've been seeing alot of "the hand on the throttle holds all the power" BS popping up all over FI lately. I would just like to remind you all that, like it or not, you are cogs in a machine...just like the dispatchers, flight attendants, rampers, CS agents, etc. One group walks, the whole thing falls apart. You're no more powerful than the lowest rung if they should choose to walk.

Here's some food for thought...a few hundred of you call out sick and we call in some reserves and cancel some flights. Twenty of us call out...and the airline calls it a day because of the inability to maintain operational control. See, we all hold the power...Maybe you should read your own posts......

 

[Andy Neill]

Hardly know where to start with this one.

The stock grant is worthless to me. If I'm here 3 years after it vests, I get to keep it and then I'll be happy... if not then I get nothing.

Granted

As for the stock purchase plan, that has a little more benefit to me.

A little more? Do you know that the equivalent annual rate of return on this program is at least 68% even if the stock went sideways or down during the previous 6 months? If it went up, it is much more. I have a hard time investing aggressively to match this. When a company offers this, they are asking, "Do you want a 2% (minimum) raise or not?"

However, while this type of compensation is unique to the regional industry, it is almost commonplace to a company in about any other industry.

I thought you were talking about how SkyWest is dragging down the airline industry - not the world.

Not to mention any type of compensation involving stock is much less expensive for the company then actually doling out money.

This one has already been addressed. The benefit's worth is not what it costs the company but what the benefit is worth to you.

The problem with employees in this industry is that they compare their benefits to only peer airlines. I say that we should compare our benefits to employers throughout the US.

The peer airline comparison is valid when the accusation is that SkyWest is dragging the industry down. Are you conceding that SkyWest does offer superior benefits within the regional industry but not the wider corporate world? If so, I might agree. Why are you in this poorly compensated industry?

Waiting 2-3 years to get a 50% match on your 401k earnings is poor considering that most companies start you out at that on day one.

As I recall, SkyWest had a 100% match after one year. In essence, they are asking "Do you want a $5000 ((or $6000 for older folks) a year raise or not?" How about your company?

Waiting 6-7 years to vest in your 401k is poor considering most companies are 2-3.

Again, I recall 100% vesting immediately. Do you have to wait 2-3 years? Bummer!

Get my picture?

I hope not.

 

[ToiletDuck]

I work at RAH but I'd kill for SKYW stock plan.

 

[No.W.]

Do you have the rule as a SKW pilot to get 100% DHD pay? Do you get to train on days that you originally had a trip on or do you have to train on days off? Do you get a vacation schedule that gives you any trip dropped that your vacation touches? Those are huge things that net our pilot group lots of extra pay.

Question 1: Yes.

Question 2: Our days are "preassigned" in PBS. If you wanted it off...too bad(sucks).

Question 3: Heck NO. That's one of the best things about the ExpressJet contract. That was even in place BEFORE the new contract(when I was there)...it's AWESOME.

So 1 for 3...

I've never argued that SkyWest had the better contract...I do think that our compensation at the end of the year...when comparing W2's stands up pretty well.

 

[purduej]

As for trip touching with vacation, we don't have it simply because of PBS. The program just treats your vacation as days that cannot be assigned trips and are worth a certain amount of pay. Granted trip touching is nice, but once you learn PBS and can have 3 weeks off without using any vacation while still maintaining regular credit, you realize it's not that bad.

 

[bmpilot2003]

Sorry to disappoint, but no bubble burst...completely aware, compadre. I know my history. Just kinda tough to operate a 121 Passenger Operation without us...or without any other cog in the machine, so to speak.

Wally we can do your job but you cant do ours. As a private pilot were taught how to do our own flight planning. The airline could operate in a very limited fashion without dispatchers. You guys help increase effiency and I appreciate that.

 

[777_Jackpot]

...As a private pilot were taught how to do our own flight planning...

Unfortunately 90% of the 121 pilots out there can't do there own flight planning. Not in an operational sense, but in a competence sense.

Wally we can do your job but you cant do ours...

And for the love of everything sacred, STOP trying to make the job of pilot par with doctor. Pretty much anyone can do it. Get over it!

 

[Willy21]

Direct destination. What else do you need to plan?

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Direct destination. What else do you need to plan?

The time to toggle over to F/I and annoy pilots instead of following 50-60 flights a shift.
PBR

 

[Willy21]

If they really need you they will call. That should free up some time.

 

[No.W.]

As for trip touching with vacation, we don't have it simply because of PBS. The program just treats your vacation as days that cannot be assigned trips and are worth a certain amount of pay. Granted trip touching is nice, but once you learn PBS and can have 3 weeks off without using any vacation while still maintaining regular credit, you realize it's not that bad.

Um. ExpressJet's vacation rules are WAY better than ours(at SkyWest) with or without PBS. I worked there for a very short time, but it was enough to read the contract(even in the old one...the rules were better). Unless you are really senior(if you work at SkyWest)...which you probably are...PBS DOES NOT enable one to take alot of time off for a very little hit on your banks. Not to mention, when the pairings credit as little as they do right now...it's going to be hard to maintain any semblance of good pay while taking those three weeks off. ExpressJet has the touch-drop rule WITH PAY. Hard to beat that. Frankly, it's hard to beat hard lines.(PBS sucks for 75% of the seniority list...which is fine...seniority rules...but hard lines were better for more people...at least at SkyWest).

 

[007]

I've never argued that SkyWest had the better contract...

I didn't realize you guys have one now.
Hmmm.

 

[No.W.]

In short, you can make a decent W2 wage at SkyWest, but you've got to work for it...I may credit 1200 hours a year...but I'm flying almost 1000k(997 last year). With the pairing credits where they are now...I'll be lucky to make as much as I did last year...even with the annual raise.

While I feel that our compensation isn't bad...the pairing credit hit, the parking brake rule change, being overstaffed(reserve is where the money's at when we are short) and other small things, are adding up to me making about 10k less this year.

 

[No.W.]

I didn't realize you guys have one now.
Hmmm.

Semantics(it's an easier thing to say "contract" as opposed to "policy manual psuedo-contract amalgamation"), but you are, of course, right.

We do not have a contract. Which is one reason why I voted for ALPA.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Hardly know where to start with this one. Granted

A little more? Do you know that the equivalent annual rate of return on this program is at least 68% even if the stock went sideways or down during the previous 6 months? If it went up, it is much more. I have a hard time investing aggressively to match this. When a company offers this, they are asking, "Do you want a 2% (minimum) raise or not?"

I thought you were talking about how SkyWest is dragging down the airline industry - not the world.

This one has already been addressed. The benefit's worth is not what it costs the company but what the benefit is worth to you.

The peer airline comparison is valid when the accusation is that SkyWest is dragging the industry down. Are you conceding that SkyWest does offer superior benefits within the regional industry but not the wider corporate world? If so, I might agree. Why are you in this poorly compensated industry?


As I recall, SkyWest had a 100% match after one year. In essence, they are asking "Do you want a $5000 ((or $6000 for older folks) a year raise or not?" How about your company?
Again, I recall 100% vesting immediately. Do you have to wait 2-3 years? Bummer!

I hope not.

Your math is a little off...they only vest 100% of a 2% match initially, that might equate to about $500 or $600 dollars for a new F.O.!

I'm curious as to how you could possibly suggest it was 5 or 6 thousand??????

 

[WalterSobchak]

The time to toggle over to F/I and annoy pilots instead of following 50-60 flights a shift.
PBR

There's no "instead" about it. Ahh, the joys of dual-monitor workstations and excellent time management. No different than you doing the USAToday crossword puzzle at cruise altitude.

Besides, there are way better ways to annoy pilots than posting on FI.

 

[Andy Neill]

Your math is a little off...they only vest 100% of a 2% match initially, that might equate to about $500 or $600 dollars for a new F.O.!

I'm curious as to how you could possibly suggest it was 5 or 6 thousand??????

I certainly agree with the 2% match at 2-5 years and that would be much less for a new FO. For someone with a 6% match and an annual income of $83,350 or more, that would be $5000. Let me reprhase to cover everyone. It is the same as the company saying, "Would you like a 2% (or 4% or 6%) raise up to $5000 (or $6000) per year?" Agreed?

 

[007]

We do not have a contract. Which is one reason why I voted for ALPA.

I didn't think any yes voters posted on here. Good on you.

 

[Deerkiller]

Yeah especially all those guys who flew those planes, and the morons who gave scope up in the first place!


Right.

Not exactly sure what your point is.

 

[Deerkiller]

I bet CAL will end up giving up scope just to get rid of PBS. In the end, they always have voted yes to the first offer.....Please prove me wrong.

I'll take that bet.

Unfortunately you're right about the always voting yes.

We will.

 

[JoeMerchant]

So let me get this straight.

SkyWest, Inc. buys ExpressJet, immediately furloughs 700 pilots, then transfers a handful of airplanes to SkyWest Airlines. SkyWest pilots get to continue their rightful 2 year upgrades while ExpressJet at best turns into the next Eagle and at worst turns into the next ACA.

And this is somehow a good thing? Because they were "saved"?

....and ALPA can't save them? Hmmm...now who is it that has the leverage?

As I said before....Jerry and CAL are holding a gun to either side of the XJT MEC....

 

[platinumclub]

This guy must be proud of his thread, it has gone on WAY too long now.

 

[Turtlesfly]

This guy must be proud of his thread, it has gone on WAY too long now.

come over to the XJT board - we have about 30 different threads totaling about 600 posts about this potential buyout.

 

[Hypoxik]

Branded shut down.. Delta flying + Airplanes transfered to Skywest Airlines. CPA for 205 a/c with CAL for ten years, however after the first 12 months SkyW can transfer some or all of the CAL a/c to SkyW pilots.

Oh and no XJT pilots get to go over to Skyw

Im not voting for ******************** that has to do with Scope relief