Airline Industry watchers wonder who will fold next

[Max Powers]

These quotes only became "lies" when a Republican entered office (15 minutes of your life is now gone!)...


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.
That is our bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose
is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's
weapons of mass destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters
a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of ! a rogue state
will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies
is the greatest security threat we face."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has
ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including,
if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to
respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry ( D-MA), and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons
of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the
region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons
of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his
weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and
nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In
addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless
using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range
missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." - Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL,)
and others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant
and threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass
destruction and the means of delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and
chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven
impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as
Saddam is in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical
and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash
course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities.
Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." - Sen. Robert Byrd (D-WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in
his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D-MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and w! ill likely have nuclear
weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have
always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11
years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm
and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear
capacity. This he has refused to do." - Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA), Oct! . 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and
biological weapon stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear
program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage
biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear
weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass
destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a
brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a
particularly! grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
miscalculation .. And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction
is real." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D-MA), Jan. 23. 2003

Yes those things were all probably said. And they were used as leverage to get the weapons inspectors into Iraq and even into the massive presidential compounds. The plan worked then Bush had to put 9-11 and Iraq together.

Looks and sounds like you are trying to blame everyone but the person who is responsible. Was it Clinton that ordered troops into Iraq?????

Give me a break study a bit of history. I think Bush ordered troops into Iraq. Maybe I'm wrong and he was forced to by the evil democrats.

This confirms my hypothesis the majority of pilots are really dumb.

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

Many people, myself included, believed going to war with Iraq was a wise decision based on misleading information provided by our govt. Sadaam was a horrible guy. So are the leaders of N. Korea, Iran and half the African Continent. We cannot and should not police the world. No flip flop here. Rather a feeling of disappointment in my govt. for selling this unjustified war. Global terrorism will not be solved in Iraq!

Exactly

 

[Max Powers]

That's laughable! You'd have more success trying to win a global war on cockroaches. The best way to ensure that we have an endless supply of islamic extremists willing to martyr themselves is to invade their lands and stay there indefinitely. If you want to slow the production of terrorists, you need to remove the fuel that is feeding the fire (yeah, that's us). I'm all for fighting the terrorists, but let's keep working on rooting them out while they are making their plans and executing them, not by occupying their backyards and creating fertile conditions for the creation of more jihadists.

Well said! We need to use some common sense. We all can agree these people are wack jobs with horrible morals and ethics. We just need to come together on how to deal with them.

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

Global terrorism will not be solved without stability in Iraq. And not the type of stability created by a dictator who sponsors terrorism throughout the world. (i.e Sadaam)

OK. Why didn't we go into Libya? We know Momar had weapons of mass destruction. We knew he had ties to terrorists. Why Iraq?

Misleading Information - You mean you don't think Sadaam used weapons of mass destruction against his own people. Even the liberal rag newspapers reported that fact. If he used them against his own people don't you think he might someday be inclined to use them on another enemy? He didn't use them on Israel, nor on the US but someday when he thought their use would result in a victory for him (as opposed to suicide as in the examples above) he would certainly have dug them up.

You know I hear this argument thrown around. A little background on me. I was in the US Army Civil Affairs for a little over 8 years. Our mission was to conduct civil military operations while acting on a liaison between the Military and the local populace. We are considered and required to be the cultural experts and along with coordinating emergency humanitarian assistance and rehabilitating the local populace, we also advise the commanders we work for on their legal and moral responsibilities.

After the first Gulf war the main focus of our training during the 90's was studying Iraq and Saddam. The exception I can recall is in 98 and 99 when we switched to Milosovic in Serbia. During this time what I learned is that Saddam was a terrified recluse of a person. He never trusted any around him (even family) and his main goal in life was to stay king of the castle on his little chunk of dirt. If the world could tie him to terrorist or WMDs we would do exactly what we did and he would not stand a chance. He was crazy but he did know this. When we were told we were going to Iraq we were like; "Iraq? WTF are we going to Iraq for? Well we are the USA, I mean home of Tom Clancy and all that high tech intel stuff. Bush must know something we don't." If we would have put all that that firepower into Afghanistan or Pakistan we would have had Osama Jiz loaden years ago.

One other thing. He did use chemical weapons on the Kurds. This was a terrible thing that resulted in a lot of suffering. I saw the after effects of that first hand and it is truly sad and I am Not Defending that in any way. I should mention though that it is slightly out of context saying he used it on his own people. Its not like Bush nuking North Dakota. The three main tribes in Iraq have been fighting forever. Sunni's, Shiite, and Kurds have been at it for a while. This was an attack on other tribes not really his own people. They were Iraqis but you have to remember you can't compare westernized values in the middle east. Just like CNN blasting that everyone in the Baath party we evil spawns of Saddam. This is also not true. There were multiple levels of the infamous Baath party. If you wanted any type of government job such as working for schools, hospitals, or even the sewage facilities you had to be in the Baath party.

Saying we are going to win the war on terrorism is silly. Its like saying we will win the war on jeolousy. We're not going to wake up some day and say "Got em all, everyone loves us again." David Cross..

We must always fight terrorism and be vigilant but its nothing new, just new to us. Ask anyone, anywhere else in the world.

I am not some bleeding heart liberal. Every soldier knows that they signed up and that someday they might have to fight for our freedom. What they don't sign up for is their leader sending them on some Bull SH#@ suicide mission that is doing nothing but making this world more dangerous.

OK. I'm done. You can attack my grammar if you want. This was the longest post I have ever written.

 

[AFcitrus]

These quotes only became "lies" when a Republican entered office (15 minutes of your life is now gone!)...


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.
That is our bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose
is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's
weapons of mass destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters
a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of ! a rogue state
will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies
is the greatest security threat we face."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has
ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including,
if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to
respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry ( D-MA), and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons
of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the
region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons
of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his
weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and
nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In
addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless
using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range
missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." - Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL,)
and others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant
and threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass
destruction and the means of delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and
chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven
impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as
Saddam is in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical
and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash
course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities.
Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." - Sen. Robert Byrd (D-WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in
his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D-MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and w! ill likely have nuclear
weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have
always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11
years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm
and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear
capacity. This he has refused to do." - Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA), Oct! . 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and
biological weapon stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear
program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage
biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear
weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass
destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a
brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a
particularly! grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
miscalculation .. And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction
is real." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D-MA), Jan. 23. 2003

Thank you ForgedBlade. These quotes are exactly the type of proof that shuts all these people up. Even Max Powers can't come up with a response to quotes from his own liberal heroes who supported Bush's decision to go into Iraq for the reasons that Bush stated.

Instead Max falls back on meaningless dribble about it being Bush that sent in troops. You're damn right Bush sent in troops - and all of the above liberals supported his decision for the reasons they state above. Now because it's not politically convenient to stand by their convictions they have jumped ship. Is that the type of person you want in the White House? At least Obama was against the war all along. Although there was Bi-partisan disagreement with his stance at least he, like McCain, took a stance and stood by his convictions. I'll give him that.

 

[ForgedBlade]

Yes those things were all probably said. And they were used as leverage to get the weapons inspectors into Iraq and even into the massive presidential compounds. The plan worked then Bush had to put 9-11 and Iraq together.

Looks and sounds like you are trying to blame everyone but the person who is responsible. Was it Clinton that ordered troops into Iraq?????

Give me a break study a bit of history. I think Bush ordered troops into Iraq. Maybe I'm wrong and he was forced to by the evil democrats.

This confirms my hypothesis the majority of pilots are really dumb.

No, those things weren't probably said, they were said.

Yes, study history. Remember Neville Chamberlain, and how he cowered from Adolf Hitler (the nice guy that brought us WW II!!!). Thankfully, Hussein never ran his country with fear, killed thousands, or invaded a neighboring country, oh wait...

But then again, I'm just a dumb-a$$ pilot.

 

[sqwkvfr]

Yes those things were all probably said. And they were used as leverage to get the weapons inspectors into Iraq and even into the massive presidential compounds. The plan worked then Bush had to put 9-11 and Iraq together.

Looks and sounds like you are trying to blame everyone but the person who is responsible. Was it Clinton that ordered troops into Iraq?????

Give me a break study a bit of history. I think Bush ordered troops into Iraq. Maybe I'm wrong and he was forced to by the evil democrats.

This confirms my hypothesis the majority of pilots are really dumb.

Anyone who thinks that the weapons inspections were actually working has a really poor memory.

 

[Max Powers]

No, those things weren't probably said, they were said.

Yes, study history. Remember Neville Chamberlain, and how he cowered from Adolf Hitler (the nice guy that brought us WW II!!!). Thankfully, Hussein never ran his country with fear, killed thousands, or invaded a neighboring country, oh wait...

But then again, I'm just a dumb-a$$ pilot.

Yes you are a dumb a$$ pilot. George Bush senior took care of Saddam. Therefore Saddam didn't have the opportunity to turn into a Hitler. Perhaps you missed how we destroyed their military capability in Gulf war I. Perhaps you were in High school sucking off your mamas nipple.

In any event you Neanderthals on here think W didn't send our troops into Iraq. Let me tell you this: He DID!!!! I love you and your friends rebuttals. Let me sum them up......"we are in denial about the fact we can't stop a civil war and can't stop the fact that these people hate each other and will spend eternity trying to kill each other."

This is so different than Hitler. Hitler had a unified country. So you think Iraq is unified? Ever heard of Sunni, Shyia, Kurd, and yes even lots of Christians living there. Tariq Aziz was a Christian. For you information I never supported the war so therefore I never supported anyone who voted for it.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Since you probably haven't been to Iraq let me tell you from personal knowledge that it is in fact a REAL war.

We finally found the one Air America listener.

Do you have a learning disabilty?

Report to the remedial reading class so you can go back and edit your post. It makes you sound a little, well dumb. Kind of like Bush who also seems to lack an ability to comprehend things properly.

 

[Morning Wood]

Anyone who thinks that the weapons inspections were actually working has a really poor memory.

Indeed. How many times was the UN denied access to conduct their inspections? If there was nothing to hide, why the constant stall tactics? How exactly did Kerry think Saddam was going to be disarmed, by yelling "Trick or Treat"?

I don't know if this war was an intentional bunch of misleading people or lying. I'm more inclined to think a lot of people underestimated what was involved or how long we'd be over there. I think for Obama or Clinton to proclaim that they will get troops home by a certain time is not very realistic either and people who are voting for either of them based on that are going to be quite disappointed.