Airline Industry watchers wonder who will fold next

[ForgedBlade]

Yes those things were all probably said. And they were used as leverage to get the weapons inspectors into Iraq and even into the massive presidential compounds. The plan worked then Bush had to put 9-11 and Iraq together.

Looks and sounds like you are trying to blame everyone but the person who is responsible. Was it Clinton that ordered troops into Iraq?????

Give me a break study a bit of history. I think Bush ordered troops into Iraq. Maybe I'm wrong and he was forced to by the evil democrats.

This confirms my hypothesis the majority of pilots are really dumb.

No, those things weren't probably said, they were said.

Yes, study history. Remember Neville Chamberlain, and how he cowered from Adolf Hitler (the nice guy that brought us WW II!!!). Thankfully, Hussein never ran his country with fear, killed thousands, or invaded a neighboring country, oh wait...

But then again, I'm just a dumb-a$$ pilot.

 

[sqwkvfr]

Yes those things were all probably said. And they were used as leverage to get the weapons inspectors into Iraq and even into the massive presidential compounds. The plan worked then Bush had to put 9-11 and Iraq together.

Looks and sounds like you are trying to blame everyone but the person who is responsible. Was it Clinton that ordered troops into Iraq?????

Give me a break study a bit of history. I think Bush ordered troops into Iraq. Maybe I'm wrong and he was forced to by the evil democrats.

This confirms my hypothesis the majority of pilots are really dumb.

Anyone who thinks that the weapons inspections were actually working has a really poor memory.

 

[Max Powers]

No, those things weren't probably said, they were said.

Yes, study history. Remember Neville Chamberlain, and how he cowered from Adolf Hitler (the nice guy that brought us WW II!!!). Thankfully, Hussein never ran his country with fear, killed thousands, or invaded a neighboring country, oh wait...

But then again, I'm just a dumb-a$$ pilot.

Yes you are a dumb a$$ pilot. George Bush senior took care of Saddam. Therefore Saddam didn't have the opportunity to turn into a Hitler. Perhaps you missed how we destroyed their military capability in Gulf war I. Perhaps you were in High school sucking off your mamas nipple.

In any event you Neanderthals on here think W didn't send our troops into Iraq. Let me tell you this: He DID!!!! I love you and your friends rebuttals. Let me sum them up......"we are in denial about the fact we can't stop a civil war and can't stop the fact that these people hate each other and will spend eternity trying to kill each other."

This is so different than Hitler. Hitler had a unified country. So you think Iraq is unified? Ever heard of Sunni, Shyia, Kurd, and yes even lots of Christians living there. Tariq Aziz was a Christian. For you information I never supported the war so therefore I never supported anyone who voted for it.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Since you probably haven't been to Iraq let me tell you from personal knowledge that it is in fact a REAL war.

We finally found the one Air America listener.

Do you have a learning disabilty?

Report to the remedial reading class so you can go back and edit your post. It makes you sound a little, well dumb. Kind of like Bush who also seems to lack an ability to comprehend things properly.

 

[Morning Wood]

Anyone who thinks that the weapons inspections were actually working has a really poor memory.

Indeed. How many times was the UN denied access to conduct their inspections? If there was nothing to hide, why the constant stall tactics? How exactly did Kerry think Saddam was going to be disarmed, by yelling "Trick or Treat"?

I don't know if this war was an intentional bunch of misleading people or lying. I'm more inclined to think a lot of people underestimated what was involved or how long we'd be over there. I think for Obama or Clinton to proclaim that they will get troops home by a certain time is not very realistic either and people who are voting for either of them based on that are going to be quite disappointed.

 

[Max Powers]

Indeed. How many times was the UN denied access to conduct their inspections? If there was nothing to hide, why the constant stall tactics? How exactly did Kerry think Saddam was going to be disarmed, by yelling "Trick or Treat"?

I don't know if this war was an intentional bunch of misleading people or lying. I'm more inclined to think a lot of people underestimated what was involved or how long we'd be over there. I think for Obama or Clinton to proclaim that they will get troops home by a certain time is not very realistic either and people who are voting for either of them based on that are going to be quite disappointed.

The stalling tactics were designed to bolster support for Saddam. He wanted to show he still could flex his pathetic muscles. Hans Blix repeatably noted that denial, to a few of his compounds did not constitute Saddam having WMD. In the end say whatever you want There was no evidence of WMD before or after the war - FACT.

I agree with you on the troop withdrawl it will take significant time; but we need to start now and try to keep Iraqis civil war to a minimum with smart political and diplomatic moves.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Just some observations made from the other side.....





Subj: This email comes in three parts...Very Interesting!!



Part 1

In just one year . Remember the election in 2006?

Thought you might like to read the following:

A little over one year ago:




1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;

2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;

3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.




Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:




1) Consumer confidence plummet;

2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;

3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);

4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate
(stock and mutual fund losses);

5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;

6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.




America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

First off, the Democrat "Majority" in Congress is not large enough to get anything done or changed. Blame the Republicans for blocking anything and everything.

Part 2:

Taxes... Whether Democrat or a Republican you will find these statistics
enlightening and amazing.

<http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html>
www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008

Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500

Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500

Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000

Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250

Both democratic candidates will return to the higher tax rates

It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush
is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever. If Obama
or Hillary are elected, they both say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and
a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait
for it to happen. This is like the movie The Sting with Paul Newman; you
scam somebody out of some money and they don't even know what happened.

Oh Boy! I pass a little less in taxes. At what expense? The fact that all those dollars I don't pay in taxes aren't worth much more than a peso? Record deficits? HUGE national debt? Fiscal policy that would have me landed in jail if I treated my personal finances this way? Can you honestly say "I'm better off than I was 8 years ago? If you can, how?

PART 3:

You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much? Read this:

Boy am I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the
Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us.

I now find that to be RIDICULOUS.

I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they
are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have
included the URL's for verification of all the following facts.

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens
each year by state governments. Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs
such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school
education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of
English! Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the
American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. Verify
at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. Verify
at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare &
social services by the American taxpayers. Verify at:
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by
the illegal aliens. Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two
and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their
children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US .
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that
crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from
Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and
marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Verify at:
Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the total cost of mass
deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of
between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.' Verify
at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to
their countries of origin. Verify at:
http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes
Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States .' Verify at:
http://www..drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

Are we THAT stupid?

At least Iraq is costing us $5000 per second. In addition to that $338 bil.

 

[waveflyer]

Thank you ForgedBlade. These quotes are exactly the type of proof that shuts all these people up. Even Max Powers can't come up with a response to quotes from his own liberal heroes who supported Bush's decision to go into Iraq for the reasons that Bush stated.

Instead Max falls back on meaningless dribble about it being Bush that sent in troops. You're damn right Bush sent in troops - and all of the above liberals supported his decision for the reasons they state above. Now because it's not politically convenient to stand by their convictions they have jumped ship. Is that the type of person you want in the White House? At least Obama was against the war all along. Although there was Bi-partisan disagreement with his stance at least he, like McCain, took a stance and stood by his convictions. I'll give him that.

I don't fall back on that- It's the main reason i'm voting for Obama. Doing the right thing when it's not popular should be rewarded- But we all know the political environment at the time- "if you're not with us, you're against us----- anyone who disagrees w/ Bush is not patriotic...." wait a minute, say that again?

You guys supporting Bush so blindly are exactly why we've taken so many paycuts. Doesn't matter who this guy is, what he's done in his life-= how badly he screws up- You guys fall hook, line and sinker for Power so easily and it is truly no wonder so many pilots are flying for next to Free.

 

[waveflyer]

Can anyone please answer why military folk love Bush/Cheney so much- when noone knows where Bush was during Vietnam? And Cheney took deferment after deferment. Blows my mind that you all choose to ignore that.

 

[ForgedBlade]

Yes you are a dumb a$$ pilot. George Bush senior took care of Saddam. Therefore Saddam didn't have the opportunity to turn into a Hitler. Perhaps you missed how we destroyed their military capability in Gulf war I. Perhaps you were in High school sucking off your mamas nipple.

In any event you Neanderthals on here think W didn't send our troops into Iraq. Let me tell you this: He DID!!!! I love you and your friends rebuttals. Let me sum them up......"we are in denial about the fact we can't stop a civil war and can't stop the fact that these people hate each other and will spend eternity trying to kill each other."

This is so different than Hitler. Hitler had a unified country. So you think Iraq is unified? Ever heard of Sunni, Shyia, Kurd, and yes even lots of Christians living there. Tariq Aziz was a Christian. For you information I never supported the war so therefore I never supported anyone who voted for it.

Typical liberal, bring out the character assassination. Yawn...

 

[xrated]

So I guess Saddam killed the Khurds with French's mustard and not mustard gas (which by the way is a WMD).

Oh man, thats a good one?

I can here the conversation, rewind to late 2002, early 2003, the setting is the Oval Office, Dick, Rummy and Dummy Trying to figure out how they can justify the war?

"Well Rummy, what can we tell the Americano re-public types?" Dick chimes in, "Who cares, if anyone disagrees with us, I'll take them on a hunting trip!" Chuckles abound. Rummy then states, "Hey, Saddam has WMD! Thats how we can justify invading/occupying Iraq. Hell, we can prove it, Saddam used mustard gas against the Kurds in 1987-1988."

Fast forward to 2008. BLUE BAYOU says invasion was justified due to Saddams use of Mustard gas in 1987. Wow, now I see the light.

I'm with lotsapie2006,

Illegal Alliens are to blame for Iraq, terrorism, the price of oil, the housing market collapse, the credit market collapse, the fall of the value of the dollar, global warming, Skybus's failure and my external anal itch! Damn liberals!

We must change the law now.....NO TERM LIMITS!!! BUSH for four more! Come on everyone FOUR MORE YEARS...FOUR MORE YEARS....FOUR MORE YEARS!!!!!!

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Can anyone please answer why military folk love Bush/Cheney so much- when noone knows where Bush was during Vietnam? And Cheney took deferment after deferment. Blows my mind that you all choose to ignore that.

No disrepsect intended, but a lot of military types are trained to take orders, follow and not question. It doesn't surprise me that a lot of these ex-military guys feel Bush is doing a great job and not to blame. BTW, Bush thinks very low of those willing to risk their lives in combat. He sure the heck didn't feel the need to endanger himself. Don't be fooled into thinking he gives one iota about you, your family or your amputations. His boys and their avarice intentions come first. Not you or this country. If this isn't clearly evident to you, well...

 

[birdman1]

Good post!!!
Good post!!!
Good post!!!
Dealing with teenage emotions from the left!!!
Whatever!!!
Whatever!!!
Whatever!!!
Everybody on here is such TOOLS with their facts.
Guys and girls, PLEASE!!! We are in the worse time this industry has seen. Facts or no facts, if the price of oil continues north, the majority of use on this site will not have a flying job in two years. Go ahead with all your facts and vote republican. I am!!! I want to see how bad the industry will become. Also want to see the expression on the faces of furlough egocentric pilots standing in the unemployment line, with all their facts two years from now.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

How about the $12 Billion dollars in U.S. currency that got "lost" in Iraq. They basically flew $12 billlion in bricks of cash out of the Federal Reserve to Iraq. After that, no one knows where that money went.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/feb/08/usa.iraq1/print

How the US sent $12bn in cash to Iraq. And watched it vanish

The US flew nearly $12bn in shrink-wrapped $100 bills into Iraq, then distributed the cash with no proper control over who was receiving it and how it was being spent.

The staggering scale of the biggest transfer of cash in the history of the Federal Reserve has been graphically laid bare by a US congressional committee.

In the year after the invasion of Iraq in 2003 nearly 281 million notes, weighing 363 tonnes, were sent from New York to Baghdad for disbursement to Iraqi ministries and US contractors. Using C-130 planes, the deliveries took place once or twice a month with the biggest of $2,401,600,000 on June 22 2004, six days before the handover.

Details of the shipments have emerged in a memorandum prepared for the meeting of the House committee on oversight and government reform which is examining Iraqi reconstruction. Its chairman, Henry Waxman, a fierce critic of the war, said the way the cash had been handled was mind-boggling. "The numbers are so large that it doesn't seem possible that they're true. Who in their right mind would send 363 tonnes of cash into a war zone?"

The memorandum details the casual manner in which the US-led Coalition Provisional Authority disbursed the money, which came from Iraqi oil sales, surplus funds from the UN oil-for-food programme and seized Iraqi assets.

"One CPA official described an environment awash in $100 bills," the memorandum says. "One contractor received a $2m payment in a duffel bag stuffed with shrink-wrapped bundles of currency. Auditors discovered that the key to a vault was kept in an unsecured backpack.

"They also found that $774,300 in cash had been stolen from one division's vault. Cash payments were made from the back of a pickup truck, and cash was stored in unguarded sacks in Iraqi ministry offices. One official was given $6.75m in cash, and was ordered to spend it in one week before the interim Iraqi government took control of Iraqi funds."

The minutes from a May 2004 CPA meeting reveal "a single disbursement of $500m in security funding labelled merely 'TBD', meaning 'to be determined'."

The memorandum concludes: "Many of the funds appear to have been lost to corruption and waste ... thousands of 'ghost employees' were receiving pay cheques from Iraqi ministries under the CPA's control. Some of the funds could have enriched both criminals and insurgents fighting the United States."

According to Stuart Bowen, the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction, the $8.8bn funds to Iraqi ministries were disbursed "without assurance the monies were properly used or accounted for". But, according to the memorandum, "he now believes that the lack of accountability and transparency extended to the entire $20bn expended by the CPA".

To oversee the expenditure the CPA was supposed to appoint an independent certified public accounting firm. "Instead the CPA hired an obscure consulting firm called North Star Consultants Inc. The firm was so small that it reportedly operates out of a private home in San Diego." Mr Bowen found that the company "did not perform a review of internal controls as required by the contract".

However, evidence before the committee suggests that senior American officials were unconcerned about the situation because the billions were not US taxpayers' money. Paul Bremer, the head of the CPA, reminded the committee that "the subject of today's hearing is the CPA's use and accounting for funds belonging to the Iraqi people held in the so-called Development Fund for Iraq. These are not appropriated American funds. They are Iraqi funds. I believe the CPA discharged its responsibilities to manage these Iraqi funds on behalf of the Iraqi people."

Bremer's financial adviser, retired Admiral David Oliver, is even more direct. The memorandum quotes an interview with the BBC World Service. Asked what had happened to the $8.8bn he replied: "I have no idea. I can't tell you whether or not the money went to the right things or didn't - nor do I actually think it's important."

Q: "But the fact is billions of dollars have disappeared without trace."

Oliver: "Of their money. Billions of dollars of their money, yeah I understand. I'm saying what difference does it make?"

Mr Bremer, whose disbanding of the Iraqi armed forces and de-Ba'athification programme have been blamed as contributing to the present chaos, told the committee: "I acknowledge that I made mistakes and that with the benefit of hindsight, I would have made some decisions differently. Our top priority was to get the economy moving again. The first step was to get money into the hands of the Iraqi people as quickly as possible."

Millions of civil service families had not received salaries or pensions for months and there was no effective banking system. "It was not a perfect solution," he said. "Delay might well have exacerbated the nascent insurgency and thereby increased the danger to Americans."

.

 

[waveflyer]

how about blackwater guys making $100k while our soldiers get weak treatment at the hospitals at home? There is evidence abound...

one thing is certain- i can't wait for January- No matter who wins - it will be a huge improvement.