Virgin America provokes fare wars at LAX

[relief tube]

we don't need MORE airlines, we need less. Period.

 

[SaabStory]

Wow...
jke406 is worked up.

 

[kingair1]

I hope we all join together and drive VA to Extinction!!

 

[waveflyer]

Great- less airlines. How are YOU going to make that happen? The gov't will always allow more competition.

No- what we need are better contracts and pilots willing to do what it takes to get them. We need leverage and leaders willing to do what it takes to get that. And pilots who are not willing to sell out the next generation.

What i'm saying is that until you're ready to sacrifice your airline to get all that- you shouldn't be worried about VA-

What you should be worried about is what created the situation where VA IS a step up for qualified pilots? Everyone regrets SCOPE- but at every turn it's been relaxed even more, Selling out young pilots- creating very good and qualified pilots willing to fly at VA rates.

 

[Freight Dog]

You know... for once I actually agree with waveflyer.

So many things throughout the industry seem to be geared toward senior pilots at the expense of the junior.

But then when those who keep getting the shaft go someplace like VA or Skybus, they're labeled whores because they're looking out for themselves first.

Until ALPA and others actually start looking out for the BOTTOM of the seniority list, this kind of crap will continue.

 

[joevollers]

Absolutely...
VA is populated by many once proud ALPA members, who, saw a step up, and took it.

 

[Hamburger]

Hank Scorpio can lick my sack. Foreign ownership is the bell tolling for all of us.

 

[jke406]

Absolutely...
VA is populated by many once proud ALPA members, who, saw a step up, and took it.

If by a "step up," you mean far lower pay, crappier work rules, and the scorn of the majority of the pilot profession...they yep, they really took a step "up."

 

[WSurf]

If by a "step up," you mean far lower pay, crappier work rules, and the scorn of the majority of the pilot profession...they yep, they really took a step "up."

This crap has gone on for ages. It will continue to go on for years from now.

I would be willing to work for a airline for less money if they treated its employees and costumers with respect. Hell, making a few dollars less but having a fun work enviroment is worth it.

Get over yourself.

 

[jmreii]

The reason Jet Blue wants into LAX is to kick VAs @ss

please airlines, I want a good clean fight, no hitting below the wing. when there is an airline down, I want you to go to a neutral corner. I hope that airline can continue and this is not another first round knockout. I am out of popcorn.

 

[mvedepo]

This crap has gone on for ages. It will continue to go on for years from now.

I would be willing to work for a airline for less money if they treated its employees and costumers with respect. Hell, making a few dollars less but having a fun work enviroment is worth it.

Get over yourself.

Exactly!

lol So I guess these "morally righteous" guys will stay flight instructing because they would NEVER go to a regional and make poverty level wages right? Heck, CFI's make sub standard wages also. I guess that means that "morally righteous" people would never even get into the industry at all. Guess that says a lot about all of us.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

If by a "step up," you mean far lower pay, crappier work rules, and the scorn of the majority of the pilot profession...they yep, they really took a step "up."

Yeah, but they got a great deal on the Navy's old "Johnny Cash" uniforms.

So cool, with those InterGalactic Starship Commander insignia on the collars (which by the way, Dennis Kucinich endorsed at the last Star Trek and Fantasy Board Game Convention in Vegas before his campaign folded).

 

[HA25]

Guys- you're dumb if you think the ship sinks or swims on pilot pay. Southwest has been the highest for how long? And still profitable. They're profitable b/c they give a damn and actually try to make the company money-- If pilots have any stake in taking down a company- like UAL was accused of- it's b/c management doesn't keep their promises - therefore the summer of hell- and the leftover "F- you, United" mentality. We can save so much $$ if we cared to.

So i don't care what VA works for-= that's on them. And Joevollers has a point. Right now VA is fighting for their existence. So pay is low. USAir is profitable now- yet the bankruptcy contract is still in place??? Who's the bigger scum by your logic?

I will say though that you are forgetting Joe that you start over at year 1 scale when you upgrade at VA.

VERY well said... Skybus proved once and for all that pilot pay is not a factor.. fuel, business plan, and quality of management are the hinge point!

VA's pay is actually quite a bit better than most out there.. I can't think of a job that starts at $44/hr and goes to $95/hr after 1 year except UPS/Fedex and maybe WN?

 

[johnboy99]

VERY well said... Skybus proved once and for all that pilot pay is not a factor.. fuel, business plan, and quality of management are the hinge point!

VA's pay is actually quite a bit better than most out there.. I can't think of a job that starts at $44/hr and goes to $95/hr after 1 year except UPS/Fedex and maybe WN?

Straight up question and not trying to flame. Is upgrade still merit based, if so how can you say you go to $95 an hour year one. How long is the upgrade at VA and are you guys still getting airplanes besides the few Skybus dumped back to you??

 

[HA25]

Straight up question and not trying to flame. Is upgrade still merit based, if so how can you say you go to $95 an hour year one. How long is the upgrade at VA and are you guys still getting airplanes besides the few Skybus dumped back to you??

Fair questions..

Point blank for the system chief pilot (a really neat guy who came from USAir) at the interview... "We're hiring you all as Captain's to be type rated as PIC from the left seat" (I already am so I would do a pro-check).... "Upgrade is Strictly based on seniority, no matter what you hear or read on the blogs" and "we're making no promises, but we expect from 1 to 1.5 years"

This is all I can ask for in today's world.. and it's more than most are offering..

 

[HA25]

btw.. don't work for them.. just an aspirant..

As for deliveries, firm are 33, and plans are for 100 inside 4 years.

 

[ualdriver]

VERY well said... Skybus proved once and for all that pilot pay is not a factor.. fuel, business plan, and quality of management are the hinge point!

VA's pay is actually quite a bit better than most out there.. I can't think of a job that starts at $44/hr and goes to $95/hr after 1 year except UPS/Fedex and maybe WN?

No it doesn't prove that pilot pay is not a factor. Maybe that's how you rationalize it, but it doesn't prove that at all.

The bottom line is that VA's pilots are undercutting pilot pay in the industry, and VA will use the money they save on pilots' salaries to subsidize their bottom line. VA management will use the money saved to help support fare wars mentioned in the article at the beginning of the thread- fare wars that the industry DOES NOT NEED RIGHT NOW. VA management will use that money saved to "buy" market share by undercutting the rest of us who are paying their Airbus Captains $120-$130/hr + some sort of retirement (not that those rates are even adequate).

When our pilot labor contracts come up, my management will have a powerpoint presentation with little bars on a bar graph showing industry wide narrowbody pay for Captains and First Officers. VA's bars will be the short bars, and that will be the bar management's negotiators will refer to repeatedly in order to drive our A320 salary demands down.

God knows we don't need another 100 posts about who's driving who's wages down. Stop rationalizing VA's pathetically low pay rates and I won't post rebuttals.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

btw.. don't work for them.. just an aspirant..

As for deliveries, firm are 33, and plans are for 100 inside 4 years.

Skybus to Virgin America: Living the Dream.

 

[ableone]

"It's been awesome," said Brandon Brown, a San Francisco State University student whose family lives in Westchester and was flying down from San Francisco on a Virgin America flight. "Sometimes it's now cheaper for me to fly than drive."

This is the problem.

The public thinks it should be cheaper to fly than to drive and this perception is reinforced by companies who do not even try to make a profit.

This kind of "buying market share" crap needs to end.

Though I am not in favor of re-regulation a new entrant should be required to at least charge enough to cover costs.

Pumping in $100 mil at a time and operating at a loss to drive out the established competition should not be a legal business plan.

P.S. Virgin pilots are still welcome to walk away from my jumpseat.

 

[Fubijaakr]

P.S. Virgin pilots are still welcome to walk away from my jumpseat.

Amen, brother.