Usapa Vote

[hmmm]

Why don't you explain it. WD

All I see is DOH and have gone through two integrations that way before and nobody had a problem that way.

I don't work there but someone very significant to me does. Thats the way I feel and so do they. I appreciate your opposing point of view. But don't agree.

 

[regionaltard]

I realize telling you this is like telling a spoiled 4 year old he can't have candy at the checkout line. You just hope if your mommy won't give you everything, maybe she'll just give you one or two things to shut you up and you still come out ahead. Bad news: I don't think anyone is planning on giving into your tantrum. But hey, good luck with that approach.

Bwaaahhhh!

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Why don't you explain it. WD

All I see is DOH and have gone through two integrations that way before and nobody had a problem that way.

I don't work there but someone very significant to me does. Thats the way I feel and so do they. I appreciate your opposing point of view. But don't agree.

You may not agree and that too is just fine however fact is fact. The east was a failure over 33% of the pilot group furloughed with NO epectation of returning. Fact, the east knew and agreed to arbitration. Fact, they picked the arbitrator. Fact, they picked their neutral. Fact they had no problems with merger policy PRIOR to going.

Now they had their day before the man made their case and now its been over for almost a year. The east is by far the worst group of pilots on the planet. Talk about mesa,VA and skybus all you want but its the east and their B.S. that's the worst. They have been, are and will continue to be their own worst enemy!!!

Last guy on the list in the east was a res bus f/o now as a result of AWA and this foul abortion of a merger he feels he should be placed in a left seat. Staple job? Not here bro I will give it to usapa they have done what the mec here couldn't and that's wake the west up!! Its going to be a blood bath and the employees will no doubt pay the price. Thinking with emotion without the benefit of intellect, nothing new to the east. Tell you friend to get that resume ready, we have!!

WD.

 

[Prog 2/2]

"Last week the U.S. District judge in New York dismissed the MDA lawsuit that was filed in 2005 over the terms and conditions of employment of the MDA pilots. The lawsuit contained several claims; the Court dismissed most of them because they were time barred..."

Wait a minute. The first sentence says the suit was dismissed. The second sentence says it dismissed "most of the claims." Which is it?


—ALPA argued that the case didn't have merit based on the SoL, ironically, not on whether or not they failed in DFR! Think about the moral and ethical outcome of that! The judge dutifully ruled the 6 complaints had merit but they legally fell outside the SoL's time lines. Score for ALPA...kinda...because of the SoL.

But, don't miss what she did say: She also allowed the ammended complaint over the Seniority List used in the Nic Arbitration because in her words: "The alleged breach is not about the process or terms of the arbitration award . . . but that the union knew of, and stipulated to, the introduction of an erroneous, previously-corrected seniority list during the arbitration proceedings. To this allegation, defendants have not offered any reason to deny plaintiffs leave...."

That is significant. She get's it. She understands the plaintiff's perspective.

Also,

"...plaintiff have adequately alleged that their injuries were caused by the defendants' knowing stipulation to introduce an erroneous seniority list that they knew would adversely affect the careers and employment rights of their represented members. Plaintiffs' motion for leave to file a supplemental complaint is therefore granted."

Simply put, she tossed out the 6 complaints over the SoL technicality and is allowing the case to be ammended and proceed to trial based on the merits of the plantiff's supplemental arguments. ALPA says that is not a "ruling" by the Judge. While she may not have "ruled" the ALPA failed in DFR, she certainly has ruled the plaintiff's arguments have merit and deserve to be heard. That is also significant. The case moves on as an ammended supplementary case. Had ALPA won it's motion to dismiss, this case would be dead in the water. They didn't. It's not. Discovery is underway.

One more item. ALPA has published that they have not offered a settlement figure to the MDA pilots.

You're really unfamiliar with the way civil procedure works, aren't you?

You might try a perusal of a Hornbook on procedure.

It might alert you to the fact that much of what is quoted above is complete fantasy, especially concerning any judgment or validation of the "merits" of the case.

Your suit has been allowed to proceed in the process, nothing more.

 

[Caspian27]

The self serving AWest pilots are not worth the paper their license used to be printed on that they didn't put the seniority proper on their own recognizance as men of morals and principle they are not, evidenced by their sitting there and accepting the ill gained spoils of war not due to them by their years in service based on Date of Hire.

The HP pilots didn't ask for management to merge with another airline. Why should they roll over and take it? There is a difference between seniority and longevity. Just because US had been around longer doesn't make those pilots more senior. Wherever each side was at before the merger should be where you're at post integration. The Nic award was about as good as you're going to get IMO.

 

[waveflyer]

Do the AAA pilots have any responsibility in how they engaged in ALPA?

usapa followers are being scammed by attornies who are promising what they can't deliver. (The Nic award is BINDING Arbitration- it'll stay after your due process is allowed.) But i'm sure they'll bill for the hours worked on the undeliverable.

Caspian27- that's really well said. Thank you.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

waveflyer-

I thought you'd have particapated in the Merger thread..... what are your thoughts on it?

Rez

 

[dooork]

If ALPA had a "merger" policy that would help...dont you think. I know they say they do....but then your group has to pay lawyers to fight their group. A union merger policy should be just that a policy and there should be no question on how a merger integration will work...end of story.

 

[Fast43]

Dooork,

As yo seem to have it all figured out and it's just that simple.

Discribe a merger policy that would be fair 100% of the time? Remember I said FAIR!

Fast

 

[Raoul Duke]

the fairest way is with an office product sold throughout the world under such brand names as Swingline and Bostich. Whoever is the acquirer uses it to add the acquiree to their list. Problem solved

 

[Occam's Razor]

Ok, I've flip-flopped on the vote. Given that it appears more likely NWA and DAL will merge...I encourage all Airways pilots to vote FOR USAPA!

You must!

I need your collective pilot group to be divided and ineffective for a few more years, so that my newly-merger airline doesn't have any serious competition from you guys.

With USAPA, that is assured.

Please, for the sake of my children...vote USAPA!

 

[PHXFLYR]

Yeah...based on ALPA contracts. What about new enrollments?



Will the USAPA pilots be represented in this next round of US/EU talks. Those A330 pilots?

What happens when a A330 pilot lands in a foreign country and the local gov't wants to detain the pilots?

How will USAPA represent the A320 shooter?

They'll buy the services from ALPA ???? ....:0


PHXFLYR

 

[becket]

If ALPA had a "merger" policy that would help...dont you think. I know they say they do....but then your group has to pay lawyers to fight their group. A union merger policy should be just that a policy and there should be no question on how a merger integration will work...end of story.

Policy and Reality are two different things. How can a group enforce "policy" when the issue is handed over, (WILLINGLY) to an Arbitraitor? ALPA Policy is a vague guideline, that's why both sides signed their lives away and banked on George Nicalau. Now 2/3rds are wimpering little bit...... Too Bad.

 

[cactusboy53]

Becket;
I don't think it has ever happened, but the merger committee's have autonomous power to make the list up themselves (that is to say without ratification). If cooler minds had prevailed, the East would have been sitting just slightly better than the Nic.

Both parties agreed to BA, and yet one party is not willing to play by the same rule book that we all play by.

We would all save a huge amount in lawyer bills if the blind policy was a simple relative seniority (if the carriers met basic criteria....Major w/ Major, Regional w/ Regional, National w/ National, etc.).

Here's my prediction:
ALPA over USAPA. 57% over 43%. AWA pilot particpation about 98%. AAA pilot participation about 65%.

Back to the Negotiation Table, and a TA out in less than 6 months. Not ratified by the East by a bunch, Not ratified by the West by a little. More money added to the pot: Ratified by the West....Not sure about the East. Maybe 50% +1.

I can't wait for mid-day April 17th!!! Contract negotiations or a 1.95% raise!!

 

[waveflyer]

waveflyer-

I thought you'd have particapated in the Merger thread..... what are your thoughts on it?

Rez

Costa rica can get a brother unplugged - i'll check it out

Plus i've been turned onto acomplaintfreeworld.org
which has a lot of useful advice for airline pilots- not the least of the advice is to not complain to those who do not have power over the situation.
Seriously, how many complain here as an escape for their own responsibility to be involved in REAL solutions?