Retired Airline... 135 pilots

[wndshr]

I will bet that I've flown with more retired pilots than most, (otherwise known as contract pilots) and they have all SUCKED, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. I don't know how else to say it. I can only hope when I reach that point somebody will be honest enough to tell me to hang it up. However, I probably wouldn't feel comfortable taking work away from somebody younger that really needed it after I supposedly retired so look for me on the golf course. I could go on about how bad they are with even more specific examples but I don't think they deserve the typing effort....

maybe that is why the airlines get rid of them at 60?

 

[bigboy]

When was the last time any airline guys shot an NDB approach, or did an NDB hold? .

I did it not long ago in a third world contry. with the kinda of ops that we do VOR and NDB approaches are done on a regular basis.

Fly Safe.

 

[FL420]

Good post, Phantom Phlyer

I ran out of Smith/Quesada birthdays several months ago and had to give up one of my favorite jobs flying one of my favorite airplanes. Happy birthday! I had to give away my job, my income, my health insurance, my life insurance and my travel benefits in exchange for nothing more than an aircraft washdown. I never had any retirement coming from a supplemental.

Retired 121 pilots are at a huge disadvantage in the 135 world. Many of the stigmas discussed in this thread are attached to all of us regardless of age or flying ability. Even though the 121 guys may have much more experience, our owners would rather not spend the money on initial type ratings -- they will opt for the less experienced guy who already has a type.

That's been my experience job hunting. Very frustrating personally and, in my opinion, very shortsighted of the owners.

Many of you assume that just because we had most things handed to us in the 121 world, that none of us is willing or capable of actually working. Many of us are very capable of filing flight plans, planning fuel, taking care of passengers, and some of the other things many of you think we cannot.

I came to 121 flying very late. Not much choice due to family considerations. My family always comes first.

More than half my 121 time was spent on furlough. The vast majority of my time is military, Part 91 or 135 and most of that was single pilot. I can and have done whatever it takes to get the job done.

How many of you have flown the President of the United States and/or frequently handled all the planning and security details that go along with a Presidential visit?

I got a taste flying the presidential wannabe in the last campaign. Everything was done on a very strict schedule taking a 757 into fields that usually didn't see anything bigger than a Citation while under a microscope with the national news media always on board. Every takeoff and landing was on the local and/or national evening news. Always under pressure to achieve perfection for several different constituencies while often improvising.

Is 135 flying usually more demanding than simply signing a 121 release? Sure it is. Does that mean that former 121 guys are incapable of meeting those demands? Some of you forget that very few guys (or gals) went immediately to the 121 world with no other previous experience.

One of my most demanding and rewarding jobs was single pilot air ambulance in a turboprop between the US and Mexico. No co-pilot and no handlers. If I didn't do it, it didn't get done. From fueling, to catering, to international flight plans, to dealing with Mexican and US Customs and Immigration.

"I am here to fly jets -- don't bother me with any discussions of company health or needs."

I ran into a lot of pilots in 121 who had a lousy work ethic and little loyalty to their employer. When you think about it, you should realize everyone of those guys came up through flight instructing, flying cargo, flying for the regionals, etc. I very much doubt they had a work ethic then lost it.

A work ethic is learned(or not) at an early age at a parent's knee. A weak work ethic can be eroded even further when one reaches what most consider the pinnacle of one's career and gets caught up in all the us vs. them BS of modern airline management-labor squabbles.

I try to never forget who my client is and who signs my paycheck. If I can't give them my best effort, for any reason, it's time to move on. If that's not feasible, I try to solve the problem causing my dissatisfaction reasonably and fairly. If that's not possible either, then I better learn to live with it. I am the only person who can make me miserable.

 

[coffeedog]

I once asked a 15 year captain at my company to file a flight plan from PHX to TUS over the phone so that we could just go instead of waiting another hour for dispatch to get around to it, and he had no clue how to do it. After I did it, he was completely amazed.

Well, if you are talking about a 121 operation, both the dispatcher and the Captain must agree on the flight plan. If you filed a flght plan without your dispatcher, you helped your Captain and your company violate part 121 regulations.

 

[ILOVEBEER]

I once asked a 15 year captain at my company to file a flight plan from PHX to TUS over the phone so that we could just go instead of waiting another hour for dispatch to get around to it , and he had no clue how to do it.

Definitely illegal. Thanks for making me laugh though!

This is a great thread though with a lot of good input. It's not too often you see discussions like this on Flight Info.

 

[Spooky 2]

I've flown mostly 121, alot of 125, and have avoided 135 when ever possible simply because of attitudes displayed on this forum and in particular this string. If you have an attitude like some here at say age 40, your probably going to be a real flamer at 50 or 60. The fact is, some of the weakest, non-standard pilots are in corporate aviation today. FSI is a joke and standards are simply non existent in many corporate flight departments. If the truth hurts, good!

 

[CapnVegetto]

Definitely illegal. Thanks for making me laugh though!

This is a great thread though with a lot of good input. It's not too often you see discussions like this on Flight Info.

It's not illegal if it's a part 91 repositioning leg with no pax.

 

[CapnVegetto]

double post

 

[Spooky 2]

double post

What ever.

 

[CapnVegetto]

I've flown mostly 121, alot of 125, and have avoided 135 when ever possible simply because of attitudes displayed on this forum and in particular this string. If you have an attitude like some here at say age 40, your probably going to be a real flamer at 50 or 60. The fact is, some of the weakest, non-standard pilots are in corporate aviation today. FSI is a joke and standards are simply non existent in many corporate flight departments. If the truth hurts, good!

Welcome to the other 1% I was talking about.

I fly biiiiiig airplanes so I am the maaaaaan!!! Look at meeeeeeee!!

Precisely what I was talking about. You must be a joy to deal with.

 

[Spooky 2]

Welcome to the other 1% I was talking about.

I fly biiiiiig airplanes so I am the maaaaaan!!! Look at meeeeeeee!!

Precisely what I was talking about. You must be a joy to deal with.

Little punk then.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Little punk then.

LOL keep posting you're just proving my point further.

 

[CaptSeth]

LOL keep posting you're just proving my point further.

A case in point. As an active 91 instructor, I get incredible amounts of condescension from some GA types when they find out I'm a widebody captain for my day job. Just like Spooky is now getting from capt vegetable.

Now, things have changed a bit for 135/corporate - there are some great people in great jobs out there, but there is a substantial "sour grapes" factor in that sector, and as Spooky suggested, a lower aggregate experience, knowledge, and skill level. There are a lot of valid reasons for that, not least of which is lower utilization - but let's face it, no one in their right mind daydreamed as a school boy of growing up to be the limo driver for da' man, but plenty of us dreamed of flying the big jets. Thus, a repository for some of the industry's underachievers exists in the lower rungs.

Punk.

 

[CapnVegetto]

A case in point. As an active 91 instructor, I get incredible amounts of condescension from some GA types when they find out I'm a widebody captain for my day job. Just like Spooky is now getting from capt vegetable.

Now, things have changed a bit for 135/corporate - there are some great people in great jobs out there, but there is a substantial "sour grapes" factor in that sector, and as Spooky suggested, a lower aggregate experience, knowledge, and skill level. There are a lot of valid reasons for that, not least of which is lower utilization - but let's face it, no one in their right mind daydreamed as a school boy of growing up to be the limo driver for da' man, but plenty of us dreamed of flying the big jets. Thus, a repository for some of the industry's underachievers exists in the lower rungs.

Punk.

LOL further point proven. Superiority complex b/c u fly the biiiiiig jets. My plane is bigger than yours so I'm a better pilot!

It's just funny. The only thing you have accomplished is to further prove my point. Have a nice day.

 

[Ratherbsurfing]

I've done both. 5000+ hours in 135, flying single pilot imc in the Northwest including ndbs. Now 121 pic. I can say that 135 flying is no harder than 121, just different. They both have unique challenges. I'm sure the retiring 121 guys will figure out the planes and be flying them smoothly before you know it. And what's wrong with people retiring out of 121 for 135? Their experience makes 135 much safer.

 

[N1VIBS]

I will bet that I've flown with more retired pilots than most, (otherwise known as contract pilots) and they have all SUCKED, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. I don't know how else to say it. I can only hope when I reach that point somebody will be honest enough to tell me to hang it up. However, I probably wouldn't feel comfortable taking work away from somebody younger that really needed it after I supposedly retired so look for me on the golf course. I could go on about how bad they are with even more specific examples but I don't think they deserve the typing effort....

Have a friend who has been married and divorced 5 times!! Asked him why. He said because all of them were nuts and he couldn't llive with them.. I asked him "F####, have you ever thought that maybe it wasn't the women who were nuts??

Anyway if every retired pilot you have flown with sucks, have you ever thought that maybe its not them who suck at flying??

 

[J3 Guy]

Thanks to the airline industry, (accidents) for all the extra equipment that is required now on corporate aircraft, and is mostly useless.

J3

 

[Spooky 2]

Thanks to the airline industry, (accidents) for all the extra equipment that is required now on corporate aircraft, and is mostly useless.

J3

Obviously clueless. You and Vegomatic are both a part of the problem. Truely pitiful, and unfortunetly bound to repeat the the same mistake that others that have gone before you.

 

[Spooky 2]

Thanks to the airline industry, (accidents) for all the extra equipment that is required now on corporate aircraft, and is mostly useless.

J3

I guess TCAS, EGWPS, RNP/ANP, RADAR,PWS, HUD, EVS, etc, etc is all worthless?? WTF over. Your stupid and
clueless as well. Please...give us mortals a clue as to where your coming from?

 

[Spooky 2]

Thanks to the airline industry, (accidents) for all the extra equipment that is required now on corporate aircraft, and is mostly useless.

J3

J3 type rated>>>what a fukin joke> Kid, you don't know ********************. Go back to your Playschool simulator and let the pro's on this forum handle the serious ********************. Most of them are thankful for all the tools that help them stay out of trouble. You are clueless.