Retired Airline... 135 pilots

[CapnVegetto]

I agree. You are specialized at what you do. Flying a 777 is yippie doodaa great and all, but it doesn't mean you can fly a Kingair or Learjet. When was the last time any airline guys shot an NDB approach, or did an NDB hold? Made a command decision without the input of 8 different manuals and individuals? Actually hand flew an approach down to minimums NOT in a simulator? Dealt with a passenger? Filed a flight plan? Figured out a fuel order? I've done both, and I can tell ya that there is a LOT less personal responsibility in airline flying. All you do is dwiyve da playne. (Pushing Tin reference there)

No disrespect intended, but it's just two totally different deals.

 

[mobie]

CapnVegetto

I agree. You are specialized at what you do. Flying a 777 is yippie doodaa great and all, but it doesn't mean you can fly a Kingair or Learjet. When was the last time any airline guys shot an NDB approach, or did an NDB hold? Made a command decision without the input of 8 different manuals and individuals? Actually hand flew an approach down to minimums NOT in a simulator? Dealt with a passenger? Filed a flight plan? Figured out a fuel order? I've done both, and I can tell ya that there is a LOT less personal responsibility in airline flying. All you do is dwiyve da playne. (Pushing Tin reference there)

No disrespect intended, but it's just two totally different deals.

Airline pilots fly most approaches hand flown down to Cat 1, real low app. must be done on autopilot( Cat 2 or 3). Lots of NDBs and holds, deal with pax almost every flight. File flight plans all the time when you are in some 3rd world airport and they are IACO not FltPlan.com. Fuel plan and order most of the time. You must be thinking of some of the short no brain trips that come up for everyone.

By the way ever shot an Adcock low range app. or an RLS, looked at wide cut fuel instead of Jet A? Take a look at the arrival and app. to Kathmandu. Take a look at PANS OP and make sure it is not PAS OP2,3,0r 4?

I went to 91/135 after the airline and it is no big deal.

Mobie

 

[G100driver]

PANS 3 or 4???? duh, whats that boss?

 

[mobie]

Pans Op

PANS 3 or 4???? duh, whats that boss?

The different reg. for each state(country) that may have requirements from standard PANS OP, such as APP. BAN in the UK. meaning at 1000 ft. if the airport goes below pub. mins. you must make a missed app. Hollding leg speed and times, inbound or outbound leg times.

You can find them in annex 3 internation operations.

Mobie

 

[AAflyer]

I have to agree with Mobie, less responsibility? Maybe the reason we are looking at all those manuals is if we break one of the regs, policies, or procedures it is OUR fault, and WE will be held accountable.

Yes, you have described some typical tampa to dallas legs of flying, but what about 9 hours to Zurich to fly a VOR approach to mins in horrible weather and winds in the mountains. What about NDB and VOR approaches into Venezuela, Guatemala coupled with the poor english from the controllers? I remember shooting a full VOR (with procedure turn) into Maricabo with thunderstorms in the area. When asking for a 10 left heading for weather he started reading the weather at the field.

I also regularly fly without autopilot, FDs, authothrottles, however after a long 10 hour day flying into ORD with low mins, would it be that safe for me to start hand flying?

I did charter and supplemental work in the 727 and it was very challenging, however airline flying certainly has it's challenges.

It seems very often I hear how I couldn't possibly handle the environment you operate it in, but you could step into my job with ease. Many of us regularly fly GA on the side, ferry aircraft etc. We are very proficient with other areas of our aviation community.

I am sorry for the few that show up thinking they are god's gift to aviation because they flew heavy iron. They do not represent us as a whole. Try to mentor them and teach them to operate in their new environment.

Regards and safe flying,

AA

 

[CapnVegetto]

I'll have to concede some of this to you guys, but you are talking about the pinnacle of aviation experience here......not the day to day operations of the airlines. I'll admit that my airline experience has been limited to the regionals, and that my international experience has been limited to a lot of Carribbean flying and one trip across the pond to Iceland, but on the same token, my regional experience was dealing with some of the most inept pilots I have ever seen. Less than half the guys I flew with had any idea how to make a fuel order without a release. I once asked a 15 year captain at my company to file a flight plan from PHX to TUS over the phone so that we could just go instead of waiting another hour for dispatch to get around to it, and he had no clue how to do it. After I did it, he was completely amazed. Every time anything came up, they were on SELCAL talking to company asking them what they should do. I had 30 minute flightplans filed at FL330 in a CRJ200, and captains that would actually try to f-ing climb up there while I just sat there with my mouth open. Almost everyone was the same, takeoff, autopilot on, turn it off at about 300 feet. Every leg, every time. When I wanted to hand fly an approach, sometimes raw data, because I wanted the practice, I got everything from dirty looks to 'NO DON'T DO THAT!!'s. Every day at my operation was show up, program the FMS, drive the plane, go home.

I'd always imagined things were better at the 'real' airlines, and I'm sure they are. But my limited experiences of flying with heavy iron guys have been nearly the same. Flew with one guy in a Learjet that couldn't even taxi the thing. Another 15,000 hr retired DL pilot I know has trouble finding contract work anymore because "he has no idea how to fly an airplane smoothly." I had an AA 777 FO scare the hell out of me in a 172 when I was a flight instructor. My old boss told me the most scared he's ever been in his life was trying to teach a United 747 CA how to fly a Kingair. My best friend was nearly arrested crossing into the US in a Kingair from the Carribbean because he was flying with a Delta 767 guy that had no idea how to deal with customs, but was trying to act like he did.

I'm sure that flying with some of you guys would change my mind, but my admittedly limited experiences have been mostly bad. Everyone is a product of their experience. I'm just stating mine. Is it right or wrong, who the hell knows? I'd be willing to bet there are just as many jackoffs in GA cockpits just as there are in 121 cockpits. I guess I've been on the wrong end of the 121 spectrum.

 

[mobie]

Biggest Dif.

The thing that has changed from 121 to 91/135 is that I have learned not to put my plate on the floor at home after dinner and not ask my wife where she is based after sex.

Mobie

 

[scarface]

Let me see if I've got this straight. According to what I've read over the months on this website retired airline pilots can't, or shouldn't, fly for the airlines(reference the age 60 rule),corporations, Part 135, et al. Also, those of us who've reached 55+ and can still remember to show up for work ,need a hybrid check airman/First Officer to save us from ourselves. I guess it makes sense.

 

[CapnVegetto]

The thing that has changed from 121 to 91/135 is that I have learned not to put my plate on the floor at home after dinner and not ask my wife where she is based after sex.

Mobie

You mean you can still get it up at your age???

Like Triumph, the insult comic dog: "I keeed, I keeed"

 

[mobie]

Only after I hand fly an app. to mins.
Mobie