NWA/DAL solving the seniority issue

[Occam's Razor]

Better for the membership, yes. But the political angels of each MEC's nature may whisper: "Better a horrible deal blamed on the arbitrator than a semi-horrible deal blamed on us." :bomb:

You are a wise man, my friend!

 

[Noserider76]

Better for the membership, yes. But the political angels of each MEC's nature may whisper: "Better a horrible deal blamed on the arbitrator than a semi-horrible deal blamed on us." :bomb:

What are a MEC's options for removing, replacing, neutering a merger committee and it's members when they are unwilling to put themselves on the line? Seems to me that when you volunteer for the position you know some hard, unpopular decisions will come with the territory. In fact, no matter what you come up with most will be pissed. If your plan is arbitration you haven't done your job, in my opinion. It'd be like me doing an autoland on every approach (many think I should) because I really don't want to be responsible for the landing.

No one's convinced me that a merger will be in our best interests but if it's going to happen anyway, we may as well benefit. Do we get the contract benefits from an arbitrated settlement? I've heard any negotiated deal will be put to a vote on both sides. No one wants to put something out there that people will vote down but in an arbitrated settlement we have no idea what we'll get and no one gets to vote (unless you count trying to leave ALPA as a vote), which is a huge reason the DL guys are against it.

 

[Redmeat]

What are a MEC's options for removing, replacing, neutering a merger committee and it's members when they are unwilling to put themselves on the line? Seems to me that when you volunteer for the position you know some hard, unpopular decisions will come with the territory. In fact, no matter what you come up with most will be pissed. If your plan is arbitration you haven't done your job, in my opinion. It'd be like me doing an autoland on every approach (many think I should) because I really don't want to be responsible for the landing.

No one's convinced me that a merger will be in our best interests but if it's going to happen anyway, we may as well benefit. Do we get the contract benefits from an arbitrated settlement? I've heard any negotiated deal will be put to a vote on both sides. No one wants to put something out there that people will vote down but in an arbitrated settlement we have no idea what we'll get and no one gets to vote (unless you count trying to leave ALPA as a vote), which is a huge reason the DL guys are against it.

Great post Noserider.

To answer your question keep in mind that the most senior (read most influential) pilots have control of this deal.

At NW that means the infamous '400 club' whom usually don't know whether we have guys on furlough or not. Real 'out of touch with the common man (pilot)' bunch.

 

[General Lee]

Great post Noserider.

To answer your question keep in mind that the most senior (read most influential) pilots have control of this deal.

At NW that means the infamous '400 club' whom usually don't know whether we have guys on furlough or not. Real 'out of touch with the common man (pilot)' bunch.

We got rid of a lot of guys like that with the threat of losing the pensions. Tom Goodman PROBABLY was NOT one of those types, but there were plenty of them in the 2000 or so guys that left.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

Disclaimer:

Heyas Occam,

Not to contradict the teacher, but it's my understanding from my rep that there is NO proposal, thus nothing to be voted on.. none, blank, goose egg, nadir, naught, nil, nix, nothing, nullity, oblivion, ought, void, zero, zilch, zip, zot, {empty}.

I could be wrong, but I think if it's going to happen, it's going to be forced.

Nu

 

[DAL737FO]

Heyas Occam,

Not to contradict the teacher, but it's my understanding from my rep that there is NO proposal, thus nothing to be voted on.. none, blank, goose egg, nadir, naught, nil, nix, nothing, nullity, oblivion, ought, void, zero, zilch, zip, zot, {empty}.

I could be wrong, but I think if it's going to happen, it's going to be forced.

Nu

Ditto on this side of the fence.

 

[~~~^~~~]

deleted...

 

[~~~^~~~]

At NW that means the infamous '400 club' whom usually don't know whether we have guys on furlough or not. Real 'out of touch with the common man (pilot)' bunch.

At Delta, the merger Committee was a junior/mid level Captain and 2 FO's, wasn't it?

 

[NuGuy]

At Delta, the merger Committee was a junior/mid level Captain and 2 FO's, wasn't it?

The NWA merger committee is a green guy and two fairly junior blue guys.

Nu

 

[PuffDriver]

At Delta, the merger Committee was a junior/mid level Captain and 2 FO's, wasn't it?

The Delta merger committee is comprised of two fairly upper level, can hold ER, captains and a recall, can hold at least ER, FO.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Thanks, I wasn't sure.

 

[JAM-BRO]

JKE406

You are a f@kin d!k.......

No, "ignorance at its zenith" would be represented by what NWA pilots are demanding. Pure lunacy.

My Delta friends would be much better served in arbitration than they would by giving up even more than they have already offered, to try to get the stubborn (and deluded) NWA pilots on board.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Not to contradict the teacher, but it's my understanding from my rep that there is NO proposal, thus nothing to be voted on.. none, blank, goose egg, nadir, naught, nil, nix, nothing, nullity, oblivion, ought, void, zero, zilch, zip, zot, {empty}.

"Nothing"?

So our teams spent the better part of a month comparing fave porn sites?

I'll try to keep this delicately diplomatic: The "discussions" have consisted of proposals from Day One. The last one is the current one. Since there was no agreement...there are two proposals. The MEC has the ability to accept any proposal as "The Deal".

If there are no more discussions, the two proposals are the FINAL PROPOSALS.

It's my belief that the likelihood of no further discussions is greater than the likelihood of meeting and moving.

 

[Occam's Razor]

The NWA merger committee is a green guy and two fairly junior blue guys.

Nu

Chairman: Very senior Greenbook guy.
Member: Mid-seniority A320 Captain (2,900)
Member: A320 F/O (3,500)

 

[FDJ2]

no[/U] further discussions is greater than the likelihood of meeting and moving.

Yep.

No hard feelings, time to move on.

 

[NuGuy]

"Nothing"?

So our teams spent the better part of a month comparing fave porn sites?

I'll try to keep this delicately diplomatic: The "discussions" have consisted of proposals from Day One. The last one is the current one. Since there was no agreement...there are two proposals. The MEC has the ability to accept any proposal as "The Deal".

If there are no more discussions, the two proposals are the FINAL PROPOSALS.

It's my belief that the likelihood of no further discussions is greater than the likelihood of meeting and moving.

Heyas Occam,

My bad. I should have said "no agreement".

Still, I don't think our MEC will agree to "their" proposal. I just hope we get the arbitrator we're on a first name basis with...which should be all of them, considering how we've funded all of their kid's college educations.

Nu

 

[FDJ2]

think our MEC will agree to "their" proposal. I just hope we get the arbitrator we're on a first name basis with...which should be all of them, considering how we've funded all of their kid's college educations.

Nu

Well there is something to hang your hat on.

Look Nu Guy, no hard feelings. You've got a great airline. Good luck, and all the best in your next contract negotiations. I hope you guys hit a home run.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Look Nu Guy, no hard feelings. You've got a great airline. Good luck, and all the best in your next contract negotiations. I hope you guys hit a home run.

I predict we'll be doing it together.

 

[3ds]

Since we all know about the Golden Share, we know that almost all paths to consolidation lead through MSP.
quote]

Does this mean the nwa pilot group stands in the unusual position of being able to decide on consolidation for the entire industry?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Since we all know about the Golden Share, we know that almost all paths to consolidation lead through MSP.
quote]

Does this mean the nwa pilot group stands in the unusual position of being able to decide on consolidation for the entire industry?

Well, here's what the AJC had to say

Baker, the author of the JP Morgan report, tells the Journal-Constitution he still expects a Delta-NWA merger to move ahead. He calculates pilots will get about $350 million in annual pay raises and other incentives if the merger is consummated. "For Northwest pilots in particular, [the merger deal] would be positive, in our view," he says. "Although labor has acted self-destructively before, we see no reason for deal derailment at this late hour."

But not everyone agrees. Minneapolis attorney Ralph Strangis represented US Airways in its proposed (but unsuccessful) merger attempt with United in 2001. He tells the Star Tribune he gives a Delta-NWA merger "no better than 50-50 odds." He adds: "In a perfect world, everybody would understand this is the right thing to do and get it done. But I'm not going to be optimistic that it will be done."

Ralph may just be right.