Delta, the biggest and the best?.....article

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Speedbird:

Good for you and you made a good decision.

 

[XShuttle]

Surprising that pilots for regionals, NWA and others are getting on the board and saying Delta's contract stinks. No doubt, SWA has a better contract as does FedEx and UPS. However if you look around the industry at NWA, CAL, US Air, and United, you see that Delta's contract is one of the best of the legacies and arguably the best. So why aren't you including Delta's peer group in your insults?

Because no one is here posting how great the contracts are at UAL/CAL/NWA/USAIR! Because their are crappy just like Delta's. Each pilot group that went through bankruptcy improved on the previous groups contracts, and each contract has something better then the others Delta has better hourly rates, NWA did better with the pension, UAL has a better B/C fund, ok USAir is at the bottom in every category.

Bottom line is we all got screwed by management we all took huge pay cuts and they got huge pay raises. No better example of that then here at UAL and yes our contract sucks and I make a whopping 3 dollars an hour less then a pilot on the same equipment at DAL and make 5% more in my B/C fund.

All our contracts sucks! Feel better?

 

[XShuttle]

"But he does not live in God's own country the USA!"

Now that's some global perspective!

Like I said I think Delta's management's team is doing a better job then most in this industry and Delta is one of the best legacy carriers to work for in the US. But DL management has taken and wants to take as much money as possible away from you that is their job.

 

[Speedbird34]

"But he does not live in God's own country the USA!"

Now that's some global perspective!

Like I said I think Delta's management's team is doing a better job then most in this industry and Delta is one of the best legacy carriers to work for in the US. But DL management has taken and wants to take as much money as possible away from you that is their job.

You have to motivate your troops when times are hard. The greatest tool you have as a leader is motivation hence the big speeches before huge battles.
USA is the greatest country in the world. While I respect the rest of the world. We do have a special country with the best jump seat policy and family travel benefits. I must mention that great hardworking people who pay taxes is an asset.
Big homes and a very high standard of living that makes us the envy of the world.
American pilots are the best in the world. Held up to very high standards and hopefully one day soon our pay will match our efforts.
Above is my take about Delta Air lines. The fact that you may make more money than a Delta Pilot does not make you better or prouder to be part of an Airline. Delta is the USA and you may be the rest of the world. hahaha
The saying is that Delta Pilots feel that they are the best in the world.
With no apology to the world I must agree that I am a believer.
hahaha

 

[NuGuy]

No one cares about your airline's bank account.

But how's your paycheck looking compared to a Delta pilot of equal longevity? How about the work rules? Bases? Expectations?

oops.

Very easy commute thanks to NWA's better JS policy to a base with minimal delays.

Work rules are ok, could be better. Time and half over 80 helps. Had a FAT claim sale in the 6 figures and a slice of a frozen pension, so it could be worse.

A bunch of guys are retiring the next couple of years. LOTS of guys, with most going at 60 or eariler, so I'd say expectations are doing pretty well.

Looking at 57 CA in the next couple of years, and then onto the 87. Retiring in the double digits AT 60. The best part? Not having to fly with guys to wear their headset over their hat in the cockpit nor having the "wives club" dictate which hotels we stay at on layover.

Judging from your profile, I'm guessing your major expectation is early coronary disease from eating too many packages of Raman noodles. Lots of sodium in those, ya know.

Nu

 

[FDJ2]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanker Clown
And after all of this, a 12 year 777 DAL/FO flying international makes about what a 3 year SWA/FO makes ping ponging around Texas. You guys are doing better now, but you need to get a spine and get your money back.

I can't believe that T.C. has finally formulated a blow to Delta guys that has even a trace of intelligence and truth behind it.

Three year SWA F/O makes $98/hr, 12 year DAL 777 F/O makes $131/hr. So it's not necessarily true.

Are wages less than they should be, Yes.

Does a 3 year SWA F/O make about what a 12 year DAL 777 F/O makes. No.

 

[FDJ2]

You seem to be implying that the average $200K payout per pilot is direct compensation for the $600m concession package over 3.5 years. Is this all there is to the story?

The Claim was for concessions over 3.5 years.

Unless I totally misunderstood the BK agreements, the cash/stock payout was in lieu of your entire defined benefit pension plan, which was of course terminated. Correct?

Wrong. You misunderstood. There was an additional $650M in cash distributed to account for pension losses, each pilots Money Purchase Pension Plan was taken out of the DB plan and rolled over into each pilots name, and the PBGC received a $2.2B claim to help fund the lost DB plan.

You can do some fuzzy math if you'd like to compare the average pilot's payout today with what he would have had in the old pension (and you sure did better than the UAL & AAA groups), but comparing the payout vs the wages given up seems like apples and oranges.

There is no fuzzy math. The $2.1B claim was for concessions the $650M note was distributed as a result of the DB termination, in addition the PBGC received a $2.2B claim which will fund PC-5 redistributions.


Each active pilot received a note allocation which covers at least 100% of his accrued qualified DB loss. Non-qualified, earnings over $205,000, are covered at 60 cents on the dollar.


The accrued DB loss will be funded by a combination of the pilots MPPP, which was part of the DB plan and rolled over into his own name dollar for dollar, PBGC PC-3/PC-4 payments, PC-5 redistribution (folks forget that the PBGC had a $2.2B claim which is used to fund additional earned pension payments above the PC-3/Pc-4 payments) and the note.

The note contained $650M, the MPPP about the same and the PBGC claim, if it pays out at 45 cents on the dollar, an additional $990M.

 

[XShuttle]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanker Clown
And after all of this, a 12 year 777 DAL/FO flying international makes about what a 3 year SWA/FO makes ping ponging around Texas. You guys are doing better now, but you need to get a spine and get your money back.

I can't believe that T.C. has finally formulated a blow to Delta guys that has even a trace of intelligence and truth behind it.

Three year SWA F/O makes $98/hr, 12 year DAL 777 F/O makes $131/hr. So it's not necessarily true.

Are wages less than they should be, Yes.

Does a 3 year SWA F/O make about what a 12 year DAL 777 F/O makes. No.

You are comparing hourly wages, a SWA pilot with a little effort can get paid for 150 trips a month while I doubt a DAL 777 F/O gets more then 85 hours a month. If you look at W2 wages I would bet a 3rd year F/O at SWA makes more than a 12 year DAL 777 F/O.

By the way I think DAL has a better contract than other airlines that went through bankruptcy and has one of the better management teams out there.

 

[FDJ2]

You are comparing hourly wages, a SWA pilot with a little effort can get paid for 150 trips a month while I doubt a DAL 777 F/O gets more then 85 hours a month. If you look at W2 wages I would bet a 3rd year F/O at SWA makes more than a 12 year DAL 777 F/O.

I'm not familiar with what 150 trips in a month entails, but I suspect it's a lot of work. How many trips/month does the average 3rd year guy get in an average month?

What if that DAL 777 F/O picks up some overtime at premium pay for a trip to Narita and back? How many trips does the SWA guy need to pick up to match it?

It's tough to make these comparisons when we start throwing in overtime or how one pilot bids compared to another. Hourly rates may not be a precisely accurate comparison, but it has fewer variables than when we start to introduce bidding habits. JMHO.

This is not at all a slight in the SWA pilots. From all indications and from what I've heard SWAPA has the right guy in charge.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

TankerClown, if you'd take a break from getting yourself off thinking about Southwest, you'd realize that Southwest did not set the industry standard in wages. The fact is that the Legacies came down to Southwest's pay and work rules in the past few years. Southwest has not raised the bar, nor will ever raise the bar. It is up to the Legacies to again raise the bar without any help from WN.

 

[UALjan15]

There is no fuzzy math. The $2.1B claim was for concessions the $650M note was distributed as a result of the DB termination, in addition the PBGC received a $2.2B claim which will fund PC-5 redistributions.


Each active pilot received a note allocation which covers at least 100% of his accrued qualified DB loss. Non-qualified, earnings over $205,000, are covered at 60 cents on the dollar.


The accrued DB loss will be funded by a combination of the pilots MPPP, which was part of the DB plan and rolled over into his own name dollar for dollar, PBGC PC-3/PC-4 payments, PC-5 redistribution (folks forget that the PBGC had a $2.2B claim which is used to fund additional earned pension payments above the PC-3/Pc-4 payments) and the note.

The note contained $650M, the MPPP about the same and the PBGC claim, if it pays out at 45 cents on the dollar, an additional $990M.

Head spinning now.....this info looks to be the whole picture. Thanks.

 

[Tanker Clown]

TankerClown, if you'd take a break from getting yourself off thinking about Southwest, you'd realize that Southwest did not set the industry standard in wages. The fact is that the Legacies came down to Southwest's pay and work rules in the past few years. Southwest has not raised the bar, nor will ever raise the bar. It is up to the Legacies to again raise the bar without any help from WN.

Peanuckle,

I totally agree with you. 10 years ago, when you were looking for an airline job, SWA was a stepping stone (mostly due to salary). Now, the legacies are more of a stepping stone to Fed Ex/UPS/SWA. You guys should thank SWA for doing something you guys could never do, maintain your wages. If it weren't for SWA holding the bar, you would be paid even less.

Is this a good thing? To me it's not! I'm hoping that you guys will stop spending your time being in awe of your international operation and what your mgt says, and more time trying to get what you deserve. The way you are going, you won't be making your 2000 wages for another decade. That's before inflation.

Man up! Remember Samuel L. Jackson's character in Pulp Fiction? He said, "Do I look like a b!tch? Then why are you trying to treat me like a b!tch?" Mgt will treat you like a b!tch if you continue to take it like one.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Nevermind....

 

[737 Pylt]

Peanuckle,

I totally agree with you. 10 years ago, when you were looking for an airline job, SWA was a stepping stone (mostly due to salary). Now, the legacies are more of a stepping stone to Fed Ex/UPS/SWA. You guys should thank SWA for doing something you guys could never do, maintain your wages. If it weren't for SWA holding the bar, you would be paid even less.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Is this a good thing? To me it's not! I'm hoping that you guys will stop spending your time being in awe of your international operation and what your mgt says, and more time trying to get what you deserve. The way you are going, you won't be making your 2000 wages for another decade. That's before inflation.

Isn't it time for the colone's coffee?

Man up! Remember Samuel L. Jackson's character in Pulp Fiction? He said, "Do I look like a b!tch? Then why are you trying to treat me like a b!tch?"

Mostly because you are!:laugh:
Remember Dirty Harry? "When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!"

Mgt will treat you like a b!tch if you continue to take it like one.

Thanks for the laughs, when I need advice on how to serve coffee or how to sharpen pencils, I'll give you a shout, private!

737

 

[737 Pylt]

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